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riversk

18th July 2025, 19:31
I am trying to make one last, desperate run at the extra clue, which I hope puts all else to bed.

1. If I have the answers in the correct order, then the definition is the last two words of the extra clue. Would Bradford’s be of any use?

2. The answer to the extra clue must contain a character (representing three letters). If the answer were written out, would it be six English letters (one from the grid + two given by wordplay + three given by character)? Is a piece of the construction meant to represent one or more of the letters?

3. Does the second abbreviation apply to the completed puzzle, and does it represent the opposite of what is suggested by the same term on the Wiki page?

Any further nudges would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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riversk

18th July 2025, 19:42
For number 3 above, I meant the third abbreviation.
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riversk

18th July 2025, 19:47
My plan worked beautifully! Just after posting, I now have the extra clue answer, and the rest seems to check out (although I’m probably wrong). I think my assumptions were generally right, if that helps anyone else.
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elpenor

19th July 2025, 08:38
What an adventure that was... thanks, Hidewell.

When all's said and done, this was a very creative construction. I like "extra clue" puzzles, and looking back on the endgame after miserably limping and guessing my way through it, I do think it has a certain charm. But my god, could it not have been instructed more clearly? I think difficulty should correlate with clarity: being left hanging after a tough grid fill is very unpleasant.

Anyhow, onwards and upwards: this was still one hell of a puzzle. Thanks Hidewell.

Oh, and congratulations Riversk, well done!
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twit

19th July 2025, 18:29
Thanks 0pt0
Sorry for slow response - broadband was down for last 30 hours. I agree - those two letters are in the same enlarged cell.
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mooncow

19th July 2025, 20:00
I agree there is a lot of uncertainty in the wording here, but not perhaps as much as people are making it. The wording and some of the clueing did spoil this puzzle for me somewhat though.

When I carried out the first instruction, I included horizontal and vertical grid lines. I then drew six new squares, two of which are the same size, following the one normal clue indicator and enabling the second instruction to be applied, interpreting the sixth word to mean “where we start drawing from”. I drew six arcs, one through the grid and five more through five new squares. The sixth new square sat empty and waiting hungrily for me to complete the third instruction, which I did with the obvious choice (though wondering how we were supposed to guess that). It lines up with an unchecked cell in the grid, enabling a final “across” answer to be entered by adding two more letters between. Looking at the unchecked letter and spelling out the other end there is only one word in Chambers that matches, and it is defined by two words of the extra clue and the two extra letters are word played by the other three, so at that point I heaved a sigh of relief and called it a day!

I feel this one had a lot of potential, and I’d have liked to have liked it more than I did. Some of the clueing was a stretch/unfair, and the endgame very unclear to me, and just a little tightening up could have made this a great one.

Out of interest, how did people do it? Physically, I mean? I printed an another copy of mine on wider paper so I had room for all those squares. If you were doing the version in the newspaper, was there room to finish, or was a bit of arts-and-crafts required??
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twit

19th July 2025, 20:26
Hi Mooncow
I do the version in the paper (I need something to wrap my weekly food waste in!), so for the first time I sent in a version completed on a photocopy of the grid, which gave me enough space to fit the extra columns in.
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mooncow

19th July 2025, 20:48
PS looking back I’m not sure I figured out the wordplay for 26 “Brooks in rock by head of Spey peg seal there”, though I know which word is extra and what the definition means. Also, I don’t understand 25 “Exaggerated merits of redacting a page in excess” at all!
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twit

19th July 2025, 21:03
In 26A, Brooks refers to a female rock singer
in 25, the wordplay is an 8-letter 'exaggerated merits of', minus a 5-letter word for a page (in a book); definition last 2 words.
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mooncow

20th July 2025, 02:08
Ah yes, nice: both clever clues, now I see them fully. Although the definition for 25 is another one that’s a bit of a stretch. Yes, I see BRB definition 20, but actually I think BRB might be wrong here: it’s the “high” that gives that meaning, surely, and definition 21 is a better interpretation of the other. So I guess I can’t fault Hidewell for going by the book in this case, and the wordplay is very nice. Many thanks twit!
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