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meursault

28th November 2018, 20:03
...and if 13 had happened to be outward and 14 inward, or vice versa, could you still count the shared O in ring 6 only once ? And who would you give the score to ? Inward or Outward ? And just because both entries are inward, is that any reason to treat the scoring differently than if they weren't ?
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drxx

28th November 2018, 20:54
Shouldn't we make allowances for the constraints of the circular grid?
By having a single letter common to two solutions in the 6th ring Phi has made the grid-fill easier (and given us two further solutions within the ring). By scoring in every ring it was inevitable that the 6th ring would have to be treated differently as it must have two solutions hitting the same mark.
To minimise confusion the preamble stipulates 16 locations. If it had not, a single mark could have replaced the four individual marks - five 'robin hood' shots! One is unavoidable but five would have been ridiculous.
I think Phi's preamble has been as generous and as helpful as it possibly could have been given these constraints.
Would it have been better to continue the radial lines into the centre of the circle? We would then have the 17 locations we really need, but I think we'd have lost quite a bit on the way.
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meursault

28th November 2018, 21:14
So, to answer the question, if 13 and 14 had run in different directions, which would you have given the score to ?
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drxx

28th November 2018, 21:48
Meursault - I assume you're not directing that question at me (I would score both entries) but I think it would be impossible to favour one over the other.
I think there was an earlier suggestion that the first score would overrule any subsequent marks in the same spot (when it was the same side concealing its own score) but I'm not convinced.
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smithsax

28th November 2018, 22:38
It is clear to me that 17 radial entries hit the target and three miss it. I have still to see any argument other than the very dodgy one I gave earlier that can explain how this gives 16 (different) locations for the letter “o”.
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drxx

28th November 2018, 23:35
smithsax - I would only consider placing letters outside of the grid if there was a thematic mechanism for dropping the relevant scoring letter from an answer and moving it outside of its non-word entry, and there isn't such a mechanism.
There are 17 scores and 3 no scores, all dictated by the presence or absence of the scoring letter in their answers - I can see no reason to add the scoring letter to any of the no scores, their answers would then become non-words.
A requirement of the preamble is that there are 16 locations, I can see no other way of achieving this other than by having 4 locations in the central area. This requirement has become necessary because, as I tried to argue earlier, the grid is slightly compromised to make it functional.
I think we are given enough information to arrive at a correctly filled grid, the only issue seems to be - how are the two scoring entries in the 6th ring to be treated? The preamble could have been clearer in this respect but nothing in it suggests a mechanism for disqualifying a scoring entry.
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meursault

29th November 2018, 08:17
Drxx, probably Harry, rrrRobbo and yourself...likely anyone who would listen...if the setter really only intended for one of 13 or 14 to count, he could have clued for 5 letters eg 'ELECT' in 14 and adjusted the second entry for ring 1. Then there would have been no ambiguity.
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charlesberg

29th November 2018, 13:31
I am really struggling with this one this week (partly through not being able to spend prolonged periods of time on it)! Could anyone provide a couple of hints for the rings, possibly the start point of each first clue for rings 4 and 5 respectively? I have the whole of rings one and two, and the beginning and end of ring three but I keep being scuppered by radials not crossing where they should (even after factoring in any holes). Particularly I have a problem with the final clue of ring 2. I believe the answer is a usual six letter word for a slow song with the final letter "hardened" as it were to give the Scottish version of the same word, but that leaves an A in radial 15 which I can't seem to find any words to fit... LA***I or I***AL which must include an O? I am sure there is a simple explanation for this but the proverbial brick wall is giving me a headache! Any help much appreciated.
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crates

29th November 2018, 13:41
as per preamble 15 not in chambers - but if you google last 3 words of clue it will show in wiki
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djawhufc

29th November 2018, 13:46
Hi Charlesberg

The last clue of ring 2 is Ballat. There is no O interrupting it.


Start point for ring 4 coming down from radial 1- begins D

Start point for ring 5-coming down from radial 15 starts A

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