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crucifer

3rd September 2017, 16:40
IonaCarr, the parsing is: T+Horn (horn, "to butt or push", in Chambers. Rather agree about the over-egging....
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planks

3rd September 2017, 18:01
Cripes, what a slog. I assume the clash should be th - which I don't have so I've obviously gone wrong somewhere. I have the theme, the characters and the significance of the title, which is enough for me. Tracking down the exact text and a quotation in obscure old poetry falls under the category of 'life's too short' in my opinion.
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meursault

3rd September 2017, 19:04
Hi Planks, I share your sentiment - it's been a theme of mine through the last numeric and previous puzzle. If so much time is consumed on chasing up minutiae of a puzzle, unless you're a zen buddhist, it takes away too much of your life.

I'm disappointed that there hasn't been more help on this site for the front end of the puzzle, for example, the difference between the 2 modes of entry for across clues, which was I think what Dylan's original question was about.

If 41 is TEERING, the entry must start with E due to 34 being ORFE. There are 2 unchecked cells in the entry, and a choice of 6 different letters to enter into each. So there needs to be more than just randomness.

And there seems to have been a lot of caginess with the clash...
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s_pugh

3rd September 2017, 19:41
Hi Meursault - I'm sorry you feel there hasn't been much help here - I've received help before and always try to reciprocate - that to me is what this site is about.

Re across clues, some go in as normal, but in others there is a thematic 'beheading' where the first letter drops down the order somewhere, so for example MEURSAULT could appear as is or as EURMSAULT or EMURSAULT - you get the gist.

41 you have the right word. The clash is what you would expect given 29dn (sorry that may have been Planks), and appears in a clash of clues in the NE segment. I can be more precise if needed.

Hope that helps, I wasn't trying to be unhelpful.
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orson

3rd September 2017, 19:52
I've just about finished and am wondering whether it was worth it. This is one for people who have read the poem as part of an English degree at university. Fortunately I have a book containing it so I was able to look up the last word of the quotation and find the relevant line (427 actually).

On another website they are positively raving about it, which I find hard to understand as I think the theme has been treated in a very clunky way (more consistency in the treatment of clues and entries would have helped). I know they usually gush over there but they've outdone themselves this time.
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dryden

3rd September 2017, 19:58
Thanks for the offer, djawhufc. I found the clash this morning when I checked my answers. It seemed a bit contrived to me. I rather agree with comments on an over-egged pudding, though lest I appear too negative in this and previous comments the grid and clues were very well constructed to reveal the central thematic characters.
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dryden

3rd September 2017, 21:50
Planks, the clash is a T/H clash. It occurs in the middle of 13a, clashing with 9d. If you hadn't solved 13a you might still get a full grid with no clash because there are no unchecked cells.

Strictly speaking the thematic character doesn't resolve the clash, it merely replaces two letters with one, making two nonsense words. It doesn't strike me as very satisfactory and wasn't necessary anyway.
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meursault

4th September 2017, 07:01
S_Pugh, I was hindered in that I had a shorter than usual solving window over the weekend. I eventually unravelled the entry method, but thanks for your assistance. I'd solved nearly all the across clues without having many entered for a while.
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planks

4th September 2017, 10:48
Thanks Dryden, I had completely overlooked 13a. My first clash was incorrect as I had chosen the wrong sort of slave in 12d which clashed with 18a. I have to admit to not quite understanding some of the clues but I have limped over the finishing line and am happy with that.
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demeter

4th September 2017, 14:08
How do the removed letters from the down clues lead to the line from the poem?
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