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Thanks again Brendan - I'll dig a bit deeper. And thanks to Claw: you've kept me amused and busy all afternoon on a very chilly day here on the North Sea coast. And, of course, Jono, thanks once again. Happy new year to all.

Thanks mitz, and brendan

The one brendan refers to has two contractions. If one randomly picks a 14 16, what is the grid perimeter for ?!

I will have to look at all the extra words.

brendan

I seem to have the same word for 2d, as the one you have ...

Yes, you're right - two contractions.

The one that brendan suggests is definitely the correct one - the clue words to be discarded lead to a part of it.

The perimeter is something that was said on a debut TV appearance.

Still none the wiser Ilippu! I have been wondering whether the last word in the first 14 16 I researched could be treated as a cryptic indicator, giving me nine words ending with Su. That got me nowhere. And I'm abandoning the 2006 Hajj stampede as a red herring. Bletchley Park awards for anyone who has fully got to the bottom of this. I think it's going to be the first 2-dayer since Paul's fonidad and threebagursome. Is my memory fading, or was it you Ilippu who rode to the rescue with that one? I know it was someone's first post here...

Thanks Mitz, we must have posted at the same time. Still some digging to do

Hi ilippu,

If you watch the official YouTube video (live) of "I b.. ... ..... .... on ... ......." those perimeter words are said at the beginning.

bit of a slog this, having been diverted for the longest time, like others, by the Mina stoning the devil stampede ... and not helped by the fact that I know nothing about those involved or their work. Having got the numbers and the message hidden in the grid, I'm too weary to track down "who was responsible". I think I've parsed everything but there's some dodgy clueing to be deciphered, not least in brendan's 2 down ...

Aah, no it was Loge who solved fonidad and threebagursome... I trawled through the archives

oh, and also led astray by Public Enemy, who wrote the song that's quoted ... on an album that definitely has ten words!