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tiomateo1

6th December 2019, 00:06
I've been away and only got to this last night. I have cracked the message of advice but am struggling (a lot!) with my last three clues :- 31dn, 41ac and 42ac.

Am I right in thinking that 41 ac is the fourth example of the key word in the quote? More importantly, is it the case that, when one changes all of the key words, the results are meant to be totally unintelligible? If so, I'm not that impressed by the correlation to the quote.

Anyhow, assistance with the last 3 would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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mattrom

6th December 2019, 01:19
31d. Def. 'system access', often seen as 2 words.
'extended' minus extra letter, around a 2-letter game.

41a. Yes.
Word for the deep, minus extra letter + syn. of 'propel', reversed + S(ingular)

42a. Word for 'adroitly' minus 2 letters. Def is 'belatedly (archaic) challenge'
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tiomateo1

6th December 2019, 12:13
Thank you so much, mattrom, for taking the time to respond to my "belated" request for help. I was concerned that the thread might have been "closed" given everybody contributing to it seemed to have had all their queries resolved.

It's funny how the brain works. Two minutes after posting my cri de coeur last night, I got the answer to 31d and kicked myself for having been so obtuse, as it was probably one of the easiest clues in the whole puzzle.

That left 42a and 41a.

I had already solved the thematic clue 36d, and obeyed the thematic advice of amending its first two letters to accommodate both 35a and 38a. I had naively overlooked the possibility that its 4th letter might also need to be changed to accommodate 42a, which is why I got stuck before receiving your help.

That left me with 41a, for which I already had the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th letters from the 5 intersecting down clues. With the other 3 thematic words, I was "fortunate" to have solved the clues (and written in the answers) prior to then having to amend various letters because of non-themed intersecting answers.

With 41a, this situation was reversed. You gave me the help I needed, and I thought I was home and dry. But there was a problem. All the other thematic clues had some letters amended to accommodate the answers to non thematic clues but, in the case of 41a, it also intersects with another thematic clue (25d). How, therefore, is one to decide what the 4th letter of 41a should be? It can either be T (the unchanged last letter of 25d) or N (the as yet unchanged 4th letter of 41a).

I would hate to have an incorrect solution caused by a single incorrect letter. But it does seem that the "advice" of how to treat the answers of thematic clues produces two possibilities, depending on whether one has solved 25d before 41a or vice versa - and that surely can't be right.

Two final questions :- 1) What is the relevance of the puzzle's title "Potatoes"? and 2) Is my pedantry justified in saying the word "into" in 41a is not correct and should be "by" or"beside" or "after" etc.

Sorry to have banged on for so long. I really would appreciate a response to my problem over the T or the N.
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malone

6th December 2019, 12:25
Tiomateo1, I've got neither a T nor an N as the fourth letter in 41 A . The entry I have there is common to both 25 D and 41 A and fitted in easily, logically - the only other available letter from 25 D isn't in the 41 A answer.

The puzzle's title is to do with the original title of the literary work.
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ginge

6th December 2019, 12:32
Hi tiomateo1,
the 4 thematics are entered as non-word anagrams of the answers, the "remaining" letters after crossers are entered in the unchecked cells. After crossers are entered there is only 1 letter common to the remainders in 25d & 41a which is entered in the cell where they cross, this leaves only 1 unchecked cell in 25d and 2 in 41a but as the 2 letters are the same there is no possible anomaly.
Re wordplay in 41a a container indicator is required; send reversed in (sea + s).
I believe the puzzle title refers to the title of the work referenced.
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ginge

6th December 2019, 12:34
Hi again malone, your post wasn't there when my finger started its meandering across the keyboard.
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malone

6th December 2019, 12:47
Thanks, ginge. Your 'meandering' resulted in a more comprehensive answer!
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tiomateo1

6th December 2019, 15:28
My thanks to both Ginge and Malone for putting me straight. Mea Maxima Culpa. I hadn't appreciated that, in addition to the letters of the crossers superseding the letters in the themed words, the remaining letters might also need to be repositioned for the preservation in anagram form of the original answer. In retrospect, I am irritated with myself for not working out that, thereby, my problem could have ceased to exist. Thank you.
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malone

6th December 2019, 15:36
Tomateo1, glad we clarified that for you. I'm sure we've all over-complicated things at times!
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