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pigale

1st April 2018, 12:03
Hi Meursault - No, I have not read Return to Tipasa, so thank
you for the link; Even though he denied it, Camus was part of the
Existentialism movement. I read (devoured) La Peste, which, apart of the main character - the plague itself - also asks many questions
about the human condition, life and death cohabitation etc. Once
again, there is this philosophy of the absurd.

I lived on Alderney (very small Channel Island) for 2 years in 1974,
and would love to visit it again - but I was strongly advised against
doing so by friends who themselves spent a holiday there a few years ago- Obviously life on this small island has changed (it was very 'colonial' at the time), but I too have changed drastically during those 40 odd years - even though I don't always realize it!

Best wishes for Easter!
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pigale

1st April 2018, 12:20
JG, I understand what you are trying to say but I fear that your trust in
human behaviour is somewhat naive.

Can you be certain of folks' behaviour at all times - have you known
them personally for many years?

Surely there is a danger of conflicts arising at times, thus altering the
present good will, and potentially leading to a misuse of the power given them?

I may be over pessimistic, but I have grown not to trust human
nature blindly - not when I hardly know someone.

PS - I have noone from this Forum in mind!
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jazzgirl

1st April 2018, 12:59
Pigale, I understand what you are saying and I am sorry that this is still continuing to cause concern.

The decision has now been made and I totally agree and accept that.
Can we now draw a line under it ?

I know no one personally on here, but, yes I have been naive in the past sharing personal information, which led to a disastrous situation. (Norah knows about it ) I am now more cautious.
I will not post any more on the subject here.





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pigale

1st April 2018, 13:11
Have a peaceful Easter JG
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jazzgirl

1st April 2018, 13:17
You too, Pigale :)
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pigale

1st April 2018, 15:43
bump
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meursault

1st April 2018, 18:10
Yes, of course, Pigale, our efforts to change very much about our existence are usually futile. And that is one of the beauties, I think about Camus - the sense of relentlessness. After reading 'The Outsider' again recently, I was under a cloud for a week. Because it is true, there is total futility, and really it applies to all of us, not just Meursault : three score and ten and we're out of here. 'La Peste', I only read once, when I was quite young, but I was also then affected the same way, the leaden atmosphere affected me deeply. But I would have it no other way. And that there is a messenger (undoubtedly existentialist) to show me the way, I'm very grateful for Camus.
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pigale

1st April 2018, 22:44
Meursault, did you read Camus for college in the first instance,
or just out of interest, all by yourself? What I mean is how did you come across Camus in the first place?
My favourite author is totally different: Zola is very much a Naturalist, almost applying science into his novels. I read some of his books
first time when only 13 and of course I did not fully understand
the deep meaning, the meaning behind the story. I read the whole
series several times since, and every time I got something else
out of it.
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meursault

2nd April 2018, 08:07
Hi Pigale, it was towards the end of my time at school, I think I was about 16, and for some reason, for quite a few weeks, our English class was supervised by the Maths teacher. His way to handle us was to bring in a selection of books for us to choose from and sit down and read. My gaze was drawn to the title 'The Outsider', and I still remember the teacher smiling and saying, "I thought you might choose that." After that he was able to get me a copy of 'The Plague', and also he introduced me to Koestler, Heller and Salinger. What a great teacher.

Mostly now I read non-fiction. I haven't read any Zola : maybe I should try. Where do you recommend I start ? I'm familiar with the ideas of Auguste Comte, if Zola explores them it might be quite interesting for me...
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pigale

2nd April 2018, 11:49
Hi Meursault,

It is difficult to recommend one of Zola's books - I suppose the
choice will change according to the reader's personality and
attitude towards life in general, whether perhaps optimistic or pessimistic .

Here is a link which explains 'Zola' in as much as he can be
explained! This may help you choose your own book? If not,
let me know.

May I suggest that we switch to the PCT thread in future, so that
no one can accuse of having a 'one to one' ongoing exchange of posts?


Scope of the Rougon-Macquart series
Zola's 20 Rougon-Macquart novels are a panoramic account of the Second French Empire. They are the story of a family principally between the years 1851 and 1871. These 20 novels contain over 300 major characters, who descend from the two family lines of the Rougons and Macquarts and who are related. In Zola's words, which are the subtitle of the Rougon-Macquart series, they are "L'Histoire naturelle et sociale d'une famille sous le Second Empire"("The natural and social history of a family under the Second Empire").[19][20]

Most of the Rougon-Macquart novels were written during the French Third Republic. To an extent, attitudes and value judgments may have been superimposed on that picture with the wisdom of hindsight. The débâcle in which the reign of Napoleon III of France culminated may have imparted a note of decadence to certain of the novels about France in the years before that disastrous defeat.[citation needed] Nowhere is the doom laden image of the Second Empire so clearly seen as in Nana, which culminates in echoes of the Franco-Prussian War (and hence by implication of the French defeat).[citation needed]Even in novels dealing with earlier periods of Napoleon III's reign the picture of the Second Empire is sometimes overlaid with the imagery of catastrophe.[citation needed]

In the Rougon-Macquart novels, provincial life can seem to be overshadowed by Zola's preoccupation with the capital.[citation needed].However, the following novels (see the individual titles in the Livre de poche series) scarcely touch on life in Paris: La Terre (peasant life in Beauce), Le Rêve (an unnamed cathedral city), Germinal (collieries in the north east of France), La Joie de vivre (the Atlantic coast), and the four novels set in and around Plassans (modelled on his childhood home, Aix-en-Provence), (La Fortune des Rougon, La Conquête de Plassans, La Faute de l'Abbé Mouret and Le Docteur Pascal)[citation needed]. La Débâcle, the military novel is set for the most part in country districts of eastern France; its dénouement takes place in the capital during the civil war leading to the suppression of the Paris Commune. Though Paris has its role in La Bête humaine the most striking incidents (notably the train-crash) take place elsewhere. Even the Paris-centred novels tend to set some scenes outside, if not very far from, the capital. In the political novel Son Excellence Eugene Rougon, the eponymous minister's interventions on behalf of his soi-disant friends, have their consequences elsewhere, and the reader is witness to some of them. Even Nana, that most Parisian of Zola's characters, makes a brief and typically disastrous trip to the country. Perhaps Une Page d'Amour, set in Passy, has something to tell us about Zola's attitude to Paris: Hélène, the central character has fled to the suburbs, but from her window the city dominates the view, beautiful but somehow baleful.

Quasi-scientific purpose
In Le Roman expérimental and Les Romanciers naturalistes, Zola expounded the purposes of the 'naturalist' novel. The experimental novel was to serve as a vehicle for scientific experiment, analogous to the experiments conducted by Claude Bernard and expounded by him in Introduction à la médecine expérimentale. Claude Bernard's experiments were in the field of clinical physiology, those of the Naturalist writers (Zola being their leader) would be in the realm of psychology influenced by the natural environment.[6] Balzac, Zola claimed, had already investigated the psychology of lechery in an experimental manner, in the figure of Hector Hulot in La Cousine Bette.[citation needed] Essential to Zola's concept of the experimental novel was dispassionate observation of the world, with all that it involved by way of meticulous documentation. To him, each novel should be based upon a dossier.[citation needed]With this aim, he visited the colliery of Anzin in northern France, in February 1884 when a strike was on; he visited La Beauce (for La Terre), Sedan, Ardennes (for La Débâcle) and travelled on the railway line between Paris and Le Havre (when researching La Bête humaine).[citation needed]

Characterization

Édouard Manet, Portrait of Émile Zola, 1868, Musée d'Orsay
Zola strongly claimed that Naturalist literature is an experimental analysis of human psychology.[citation needed] Considering this claim, many critics, such as György Lukács,[21] find Zola strangely poor at creating lifelike and memorable characters in the manner of Honoré de Balzac or Charles Dickens, despite his ability to evoke powerful crowd scenes. It was important to Zola that no character should appear larger than life;[22] but the criticism that his characters are "cardboard" is substantially more damaging. Zola, by refusing to make any of his characters larger than life (if that is what he has indeed done), did not inhibit himself from also achieving verisimilitude.

Although Zola found it scientifically and artistically unjustifiable to create larger-than-life characters, his work presents some larger-than-life symbols which, like the mine Le Voreux in Germinal,[citation needed] take on the nature of a surrogate human life. The mine, the still in L'Assommoir and the locomotive La Lison in La Bête humaine impress the reader with the vivid reality of human beings.[citation needed] The great natural processes of seedtime and harvest, death and renewal in La Terre are instinct with a vitality which is not human but is the elemental energy of life.[23] Human life is raised to the level of the mythical as the hammerblows of Titans are seemingly heard underground at Le Voreux or in La Faute de l'Abbé Mouret, the walled park of Le Paradou encloses a re-enactment – and restatement – of the Book of Genesis.[citation needed]

Zola's optimism
In Zola there is the theorist and the writer, the poet, the scientist and the optimist – features that are basically joined together in his own confession of positivism;[citation needed] later in his life, when he saw his own position turning into an anachronism, he would still style himself with irony and sadness over the lost cause as "an old and rugged Positivist".[24]

The poet is the artist in words whose writing, as in the racecourse scene in Nana or in the descriptions of the laundry in L'Assommoir or in many passages of La Faute de l'Abbé Mouret, Le Ventre de Paris and La Curée, vies with the colourful impressionistic techniques of Claude Monet and Pierre-Auguste Renoir. The scientist is a believer in some measure of scientific determinism – not that this, despite his own words "devoid of free will" ("dépourvus de libre arbitre"),[25] need always amount to a philosophical denial of free will. The creator of "la littérature putride", a term of abuse invented by an early critic of Thérèse Raquin (a novel which predates Les Rougon-Macquart series), emphasizes the squalid aspects of the human environment and upon the seamy side of human nature.[26]

The optimist is that other face of the scientific experimenter, the man with an unshakable belief in human progress.[citation needed] Zola bases his optimism on innéité and on the supposed capacity of the human race to make progress in a moral sense. Innéité is defined by Zola as that process in which "se confondent les caractères physiques et moraux des parents, sans que rien d'eux semble s'y retrouver";[27] it is the term used in biology to describe the process whereby the moral and temperamental dispositions of some individuals are unaffected by the hereditary transmission of genetic characteristics. Jean Macquart and Pascal Rougon are two instances of individuals liberated from the blemishes of their ancestors by the operation of the process of innéité.[citation needed]
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