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Hello Elle and Rusty and everyone!

Rather sunny here and warm at 30C - Pleasant.

Elle, this poems comparison is a real gymnastic!

Every message written by Kipling is there in the French version,
but NOT IN THE SAME ORDER!!
So you must search to find the equivalent message, which of course
is not, as I said yesterday, a word for word translation, but rather
an adaptation of the message.

For example, the French version is written in 8 stanzas instead of the
4 of the English original , each stanza having 4 verse (obviously 8 in English) -
The stanzas are made of three verses of 12 feet each while the fourth one has only 8 feet.
It is a fairly common form of poetry in France.

The rhyming pattern is rigorously every other verse, ie 1 and 3, 2 and 4.

As to the translation/adaptation/re-writing, whatever you choose
to call it, here are a few examples

Verse 1 & 2 of Stanza 1 in Fr = Verse 7 & 8 of Stanza 2 in English

Verse 3 & 4 of Stanza 5 in Fr = Verse 1 & 2 of Stanza 2 in English

Verse 1 & 2 of Stanza 4 in Fr = Verse 1& 2 of Stanza 4 in English

(If I made no mistake !)

If you look at those, you will find that even with some difference/small omissions, the essence of the original message is sent to the French reader in the adaptation.

After all, you enjoy Athletics, don't you ........

As I said earlier, it is a real gymnastic!

Oops, Ros!
Of course the one thing I didn't remember correctly was the title ….
" Vitai Lampada"

Hello, Elle!
Our gravestone is made of granite.
I will have a wee look on YouTube to see if there are any films on how to proceed.
It will be several weeks before I return to the cemetery, though.
Just finished my puzzle.
It's a good one today!

elle-
I have recorded a whole graveyard and parts of several for the general good, as my family's gravestones have largely disappeared. I have only ever found a very few, including one near you! But if what is written on them is not recorded, they will eventually be lost. In some places (Gloucestershire, for example) a copper plate was sometimes fixed to the stone to record the occupant beneath. You can imagine what is happening to those. Slate seems to last the longest and nothing usually grows on it.

No, I haven't read that poem, but I will, thanks. Newbolt went somewhat out of fashion, did he not?

I like the rhythm and sounds of that poem, elle, but definitely not the sentiment/point of view!

Phew I am fed up with blinkin' kapchas over many days now

Hello, Pigale!
Yes, I had noticed that the ideas conveyed by the French translator were all in a different order from Kipling's original poem.....
And as I said before, I DO like the translator's theories....
BUT I still think this is rather to be compared to an art critic advising on an artist's work...and offering up only a personal interpretation......
To me, as the reader, this is an extensive development on what was originally said.
Perhaps it is simply that the essence of an original cannot ever be portrayed in translation....?

Ros,
I think it was largely the rhythm of Vitai Lampada that first appealed to me!
Especially as we always had to speak our poetry out loud at school!
It was good drama!
It has been a few weeks now, since I last had a run-in with Recaptcha!

Good afternoon, Rusty!
I have just spoken on the phone to my elder daughter.....she has confirmed that they will be arriving on Saturday!
Our eldest grandson goes to Secondary school in September.
He attended an Induction day there, just before the end of term, so I am looking forward to hearing all about that in person!
It will be a big change for him, coming from a small village school.....
And younger daughter has just pointed out that YB will be at Primary school in just over a year's time!
Where is time going?
My life is racing away!!
I haven't even started the crossword, yet, Rusty.....
Today has so far been extremely hectic!

Hello, Elle!
Good news about your family arriving, Elle!
Best hit your local Sainsburys!
Get in plenty ice cream!
Time does fly, when you're not looking!
I am feeling quite pleased with myself.
I made a mess of Twitter yesterday, using AdBlock.
Had parts of the page missing etc.
But today I resolved to sort it.
It involved going into AdBlock advanced settings, (I tiptoed my way through it!) and unchecking an instruction that I added yesterday.
Was very pleased that I found it.
Took me a few minutes as I was in uncharted waters and did not want to make things worse.
But.....all is fine, now!

Hello Elle,

A difficult job indeed, particularly in a rhyming poem form!

I translated a couple of literary works some years back (while in
Guernsey), as well as some conveyances paperwork from Lawyers.
The two exercises were totally different - the conveyancing had
to be strictly precise and identical, whatever the beauty of the language
- providing the grammar was correct of course.

The other was more taxing and I did find myself re-writing the book
yet bearing in mind at all times the message the author wanted
to impart on his readers, the emotions he had intended his readers
to feel, etc.
A fascinating work and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I have a diploma in translation English to French and French to English, which I took as a 3 year distant-learning course (intensive and very rewarding).

This is when I decided I could never be an instant translator! I need time to immerse myself in the story and style of the author, and reflect all night if need be, in search of the perfect word that will mean precisely the same in both languages.
I really admire the translators working in Brussels or the like!

Hi, Rusty!
That is good that you have sorted out Twitter.....
I use an Adblock, but have no idea about Advanced settings?
I simply set up the Adblock ages ago.......and then left it severely alone!
It doe not seem to interfere with anything?
But if it ever did...then I should not know what to do about it!
Btw, I am having an easy time with Recaptcha at the moment-- it is weeks now since I had to do other than tick the box!
I am in danger of forgetting what an American fire hydrant looks like!
I sent the details of the holiday accommodation in Swanage to my younger daughter, and she is going to check it out when she is there....
I have a feeling though that it is unlikely I should be able to take the cat.......
Most agencies seem to have a blanket policy forbidding this.
Although I have found that if booking through an individual owner, it is usually permitted after some "pleading" on my part!
We shall see what develops...…



Hello, Pigale!
Yes, I know that you have done a lot of translating.
But I am sure you will agree that translating prose is very different from translating poetry?
Especially if the poem is going to be "reproduced" in rhyming form.
I have read many novels by Henning Mankell…..and these are translated from Swedish.