Crossword Help Forum
Forum Rules

Yes - I understand that’s the twist in the story and I’d wondered about that, but reflecting it in the grid would make the instructions even more contradictory. I can see it would resolve my problem with the first letter of 10D, but I’d then be breaching the very explicit instruction that only checked letters must be entered in the across clues where they intersect the two 2Ds multiple times rather than just once. Maybe I’m misinterpreting the rubric (and the revealed vague ‘instruction’ doesn’t really help), but my reading was that we were strictly forbidden from entering alternative letters into those particular cells and that that prohibition extended into the endgame - which is why we were given it.

I dare say you’re right - I seem to be alone in having tied myself in knots with this issue. But it feels very unsatisfactory.

Barneya - not sure you have completed the grid quite right - only two thematic words are entered initially not four

The explicit instruction is to ensure you fill the grid in correctly originally and then you implement the endgame

Entering the checked letters gives the two thematic items. Entering the alternative letters in those same cells illustrates the 'twist' precisely.

All done. I agree that the preamble is a bit vague and there may be some ambiguity on what she should submit.
You could read the preamble to mean that ONLY checked letters should be inserted in the answers that are too long for their lights. This leaves a lot of empty cells. Once you have completed the end game it is clear what these unchecked letters must be - but should we insert them?

I found the borrowing of a letter very unsatisfactory and got the message by guessing for the most part.
Like gitto @ 36 I've gone a stage further and entered the actual gifts - you still end up with a load of non-words and it justifies 20

I agree DSC, but I think that this is yet another example of how the preamble is not entirely helpful. Given the obscurity of some LISTENERS the end game should be a little more explicit - still have nightmares about that bloody hare.

I found the preamble intuitively simple. Similarly the resolution, but I am familiar with the theme.

Interesting to read Candledave and Quisling's discussion of 12d as I treated the use of country similarly to, e.g., 'wine country', but am not based in the UK. Perhaps this makes a difference. That said, I did find it easier to work back to some of the borrowed letters once the p had started to d.

All seemed clear at the end. I enjoyed this.

Thanks for your (and others) helpful responses. I get it, and actually have done for a while but have just been uneasy about it. It’s interesting - it seems to me that your take on the ‘explicit instruction’ goes beyond what is actually written. There’s nothing explicit in the preamble which says that the first sentence applies only to the original grid. To me - a relative newbie - what I read is that the only letters that can ever be entered into the relevant cells are those that check with the down clues (the word ‘only’ prominently appears in the relevant instruction). You, presumably through long experience, have intuited that this constraint no longer applies after a certain point.

I live and learn. Thanks to you all for the education!

BarneyA, I find it easier to approach The Listener with a set of assumptions that may well be challenged by the individual setter. Others will be able to refine this better than I.

One of those assumptions is that the set of instructions for filling the grid can be set aside once that is complete. What you're told to "after filling the grid" (the wording of this preamble) often involves replacing or moving letters in the grid which, of course, contradicts those initial instructions. It can sometimes call for more outlandish actions.

You are right to read the preamble carefully, particularly any modal verbs. The ambiguity can be part of the fun; the solution almost always clears up any confusion.

More art than science, this.