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ionacarr

3rd January 2016, 13:03
Well, this was quite straightforward and pleasant, but the endgame has left me feeling short-changed.

Does the thematic phrase actually have any meaning or purpose in connection with the left-over letter? Is there a 'theme' at all? Why is the title so cumbersome? Is it some sort of arch joke that the letter is concealed in plain view?

I really feel it's an anti-climax.
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saddleworthian

3rd January 2016, 13:51
Ionacarr

*Spoiler alert*

I couldn't disagree with you more.

The theme is light, certainly, but satisfying nonetheless.

In across clues wordplay a letter is taken away, in the down one is added: this hints at the phrase.

The title struck me as perfectly concise and satisfactory.

My understanding of the history of Listener and similar 'specialist' crosswords is that they were designed to increase the difficulty of the puzzle by reducing the impact of earlier answers on the solving of later clues. Last weeks Playfair square did just that, and the removal of letters from entries is a classic method of achieving the same.

In my view one of the better Listeners in recent weeks, and it's lightness is only appropriate to the time of year.

'Nough said.
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rickye

3rd January 2016, 15:12
A very enjoyable start to 2016 though I confess I am stuck at the last fence as I had thought the extra letter at 1d was R but this is clearly not the case. Help!
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rickye

3rd January 2016, 15:14
Seen it now. Often happens!
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ionacarr

3rd January 2016, 15:19
But what you've said doesn't invalidate the point I made.

It's usual, in any advanced cryptic, for the 'theme' to emerge in a PDM, having previously been completely unsuspected. As you have observed, we're told at the outset in this puzzle that we need to add or remove letters, which makes it peculiar that the revealed phrase does no more than say ... that we need to add or remove letters. (Which we've just finished doing.)

Likewise, titles are usually cryptic or obscure, and a PDM is often required to understand what they are driving at. Here, the title effectively says, 'You are going to be left with a superfluous letter' (which the preamble repeats). The space beneath the grid contains a further iteration of that point, just in case we haven't quite grasped it.

I kept wondering why the space couldn't have been prefaced simply by 'Extra letter'. The chosen phrase still seems to me to be over-wordy.

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primeprospect

3rd January 2016, 16:16
I can't help agreeing with ALL the points made in the previous post ! Perhaps this puzzle was designed to be " a gentle way in " for all NEW solvers of the Listener. Which is fully welcome, no argument there. But I don't like the idea of sacrificing standards to that end. I. too, felt a sense of anti-climax after an otherwise very enjoyable puzzle. Too many tautologies by far in the sense of reiterating the fairly obvious. A better title in my view could have been " That's Life ! " ...to confirm one of your points, ionacarr. And it does seem rather lame just to write the required letter (as a letter) below the grid. Can't help feeling that we are all missing something ....drat !!
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saddleworthian

3rd January 2016, 17:08
Clearly we are a broad church and our differences of opinion should only be celebrated.

However, I shall defend my standpoint one last time before retiring.

Firstly, the use of the word tautologies seems a little harsh, suggesting somehow an erroneous duplication of words or phrases which I certainly haven't seen in this puzzle.

Also, the suggested title That's Life might not have been ideal as 'l' is not listed as an abbreviation for life. Otherwise it may well have worked nicely.

Finally let me just re-iterate that my own preference is for the purist skill of completing crosswords. The use of devices to make this more difficult by preventing the use of previously solved answers to partially complete unsolved clues is very welcome.

However, any 'end game' which is superfluous to the completion or translation or verification of the grid is in my view unnecessary.

*Spoiler Alert*

There has been talk of the PDM - which can be fun. In the case of this crossword my own PDM was completing 10a (my final entry) which had me troubled for a while. A further, more thorough reading of the preamble helped me out and gave me cause to smile.

I'm sure many of the setters read this and another forum, and therefore whilst there are those looking for more riddles and cryptographs, I hope I speak for those with more purist tastes.

Until next week then.
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meursault

3rd January 2016, 18:05
As some may have noticed, a rule has now been imposed on this site that help can only be given when it has been asked for. Can anyone confirm for me what the 'one left over' is ?
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gem94

3rd January 2016, 18:13
Now that is just being naughty!
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meursault

3rd January 2016, 21:12
...at least you have a sense of humour...
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