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patch49

6th July 2015, 17:36
Please can someone explain the wordplay in 26d. I have the misprint.
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kilgore trout

6th July 2015, 17:51
lathe (historical): A former division of Kent

+ E

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ginge

6th July 2015, 17:51
Lathe (2nd definition in Chambers) a former division of Kent + e.
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patch49

6th July 2015, 19:20
Thanks.
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scarlett

7th July 2015, 12:23
Full grid , shape filled in with new word..
Just 1 query please:
8d It presages bad weather beginning of snow for example , trouble inside . I can see the "beg of snow for example " bit but where is the trouble? (Thought trouble was usually ADO??)
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kilgore trout

7th July 2015, 12:30
for example = e.g. so S+E(ADO)G
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scarlett

7th July 2015, 12:33
thanks - i had that originally but didn't think the defn quite fitted so changed it to sea fog!
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saddleworthian

11th July 2015, 11:34
Meursault and Barretter;

Ordinarily I would not wade in to such a heated debate, but I sensed (correctly or otherwise) that you both might appreciate my understanding of the -is or -es debate - which, incidentally, has been the subject of many theses.

I believe the answer is quite simple here; we must remember that the original quote was written prior to the late Augustan period when the written language was documented far more formally, and therefore at the time Virgil was writing there existed less clearly defined rules.

(As an additional comment here, the same was the case with Chaucer and Shakespeare - they did not misspell, or use bad grammar, but rather lived in times when society was far less pedantic about the fluidity of our great language.)

However, if you wish to get serious about the analysis of this quote, I would suggest you research Virgil's use of the third declension accusative plural endings (-is) as this is something he does commonly.

My own belief is that he did so because it sounds better when read; -is has a long vowel sound, -es has a short, rather staccato sound. I simply think he was being poetic; and I'll stick my neck out and say he's probably earned the right to do so.

Before I make my final comment, I would like to acknowledge that I am a relative newcomer to this forum, and unlike the two of you am a net consumer of the information herein, whereas you both seem to be net suppliers.

However, the tone of your discussion was distinctly uncomfortable for me, and I suspect others, in what is ordinarily a very pleasant and friendly (virtual) place to be.

'nough said?
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meursault

11th July 2015, 17:46
Saddleworthian - thank you very much for your comments. So it appears after all that the probability has swung in favour of an error by Virgil, 'corrected' by scholars. In which case KevGar used a misquote.

I too found the tone surprising, I believe that I've assisted Barretter in the past. There was first the statement that I 'obviously' didn't know what I was talking about, then the suggestion that my example of a misuse of 'obviously' was also 'rubbish'.

But I'm a believer in freedom of expression, Barretter's animus will play out in some way eventually...
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crosswhit99

15th July 2015, 14:51
Don't have a problem with 'is' in 35d, but do have a problem with its absence in 24d ('Woman is flipping .....) !!
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