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chrise

12th December 2018, 18:03
Would that have been Bolton Girls Grammar, elle?
We had football, rugby and cricket matches against Bolton Boys, so I knew the way!
Our golfing 4 away-dayers have now played a couple of times at Bolton Golf Club, just up the road.
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jigjag

12th December 2018, 18:50
Hello Elle and Chris

If it was Bolton Girls my daughter played many sports fixtures there. The Lever family were great benefactors in the Wirral - I did not know it spread to Bolton. You would be surprised how many people visit PS to see the village - and dont go to the gallery.

Hello Rusty

The Queen decides what is a city, and it is announced by Royal proclamation. I remember the Swansea one that Tyke51 mentioned. It was about 40 years ago and I was collecting stamps then and bought a First-day cover with Prince Charles on it, presumably as Prince of Wales. She has created many cities since. I remember the Sunderland one was controversial. Bolton, Warrington, Croydon, Huddersfield etc are not cities. The dictionaries must be referring to foreign towns/cities, certainly not UK



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malone

12th December 2018, 19:01
Yes, Jigjag, the Queen does indeed decide what is a city - that's often the second, and UK specific, definition of a 'city'. The first definition, 'large or populous town' is not referring to foreign towns or cities - this would be noted. I've just read some discussion on the Times website on this clue, crossword - many solvers did not even hesitate at the 'city - Bolton' clue as the city/large town has come up many times before (apparently, I've missed them!).

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chrise

12th December 2018, 19:04
Lord Lever - later Viscount Leverhulme - was from Bolton - see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lever,_1st_Viscount_Leverhulme
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rusty

12th December 2018, 19:27
Hello, Jigjag.
I mentioned earlier that Chambers has 6 definitions of "city".
The Queen may proclaim some cities, that would be one definition, but the first and main definition is "a large town".
"Foreign towns/cities" are nothing to do with it.
What about all the cities throughout the World?
Does the Queen decide which are cities? Of course not.
The dictionary is defining what the word actually means, and that is "a large town".
I ask again, do you have a link to the Queen "insisting" Bolton was not a city?
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malone

12th December 2018, 19:31
Rusty, you and I would probably have had the same initial wonder/doubt about any large town being described as a 'city', but Chambers would have resolved that for us. This clue seems to have caused so much debate, argument because it involves a large town that almost became a 'city' (def 2) but didn't. Although I see that bit as irrelevant, I can appreciate that others don't.
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rusty

12th December 2018, 19:50
Hello, Malone,
Yes, I see that.
I think it is perfectly simple, as does Collins, Chambers, etc.
And I think it was a good clue, too.
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elle

12th December 2018, 20:06
Hello, Chris!
Sorry, I have been away from the computer for while, and have only just seen your post.
Yes, my old school originated as Bolton Girls' Grammar.
Lord Leverhulme played a very important part in its future and yes, he was born in Bolton.
You might be interested to see these links.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolton_School

https://www.boltonschool.org/
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jigjag

12th December 2018, 20:16
I have written to Mr R to complain about the clue and I suggested Bilton or even Belton were more accurate answers than Bolton.

I have asked him to include the following clue in a future puzzle

Josh perhaps, managed defensive slip in City v Town clash (5)
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