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ionacarr

31st December 2014, 11:22
There wouldn't be much point in making it necessary to resolve the U/N problem if the resulting letter was then omitted from the grid. At least, that's the way I see it.

Has any previous Listener generated such a long thread as this one?
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unclued

31st December 2014, 11:24
I'm still not sure whether it is necessary to put both phrases into the central column. The obvious thing is just to put the (6,4) phrase which hides the (4,4) but I'm not convinced. To me the instructions seem ambiguous.
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dryden

31st December 2014, 11:46
Finally got there after seeing three words emerge from the end of my initial letter pairs, then consulting the internet for further precise information. Even then I had to make many changes to my initial letter replacements, as Ionacarr predicted (and thanks Ionacarr for encouraging my persistence).
I found the endgame, and the final grid, rather unsatisfying. Given the word that needs highlighting, the orientation of the central column is 180 degrees out. It would have been better reading bottom up.
I'm also find the ambiguity of what to submit for the final grid a bit unsatisfactory. I can see an argument for both options, but in one case I would not be demonstrating that I have fully understood the method of entry of some answers nor the need for two other changes. It could also be argued that the preamble phrase, "cause of the coincidence," implies everything needs to be transparently indicated, so I'm going for transparency.
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caphrist

31st December 2014, 11:54
Ionacarr, I'm struggling more with this one than for many a year. Had a full grid and the central alternatives since Monday but still no idea how to resolve the clashes despite your generousn hints. Down message unclear but. Seems to repeat a word in the include.
One last tip for a thickly if you will,
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caphrist

31st December 2014, 12:16
Sorry about grammar in last post.Nursing granddaughter in one hand and trying to type with the other just beyond me. For include read unclued and for thickly read thicky etc.

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unclued

31st December 2014, 12:22
I've been doing some investigating! We have three clocks of the relevant type and none of them completely hides the (4,4) so I guess the two answers should be superimposed somehow?
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ionacarr

31st December 2014, 12:51
Caphrist, yes you're on the right track with your reading of the 'down' letter pairs, but don't forget that there are two 'messages' (examples) running in parallel. Compare what you've found with the sequence followed by the *other* letters. In the 'across' element of the examples there is one very glaring value which stands out by being consecutive, as it happens.

Enough hints, already!
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caphrist

31st December 2014, 13:17
Thanks ionacarr. Out with aforementioned baby until 5, after which I'll start again with renewed vigour. Many thanks and healthy solving to you in 2015.
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orson

31st December 2014, 14:26
I've got the theme and the central column (though with similar doubts to those expressed here).

One quibble. My Chambers says 7a is one word, not two.
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unclued

31st December 2014, 14:37
Orson - are you using the plural for 17?
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