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A numerical puzzle this week, so the usual info, approach, doesn't really apply.

Help with the clues may be sought here. Nothing too blatant should be given away too readily, just a word or two that could help someone stuck on a particular clue.

Help with the theme may also be sought and given. The assistance really should be on the gentler side, just a nudge or a pointer in the right direction. Aim to avoid giving anything that would spoil the puzzle for other solvers. Any posts which, even inadvertently, reveal too much of the theme are likely to be removed.

The Listener is a unique puzzle and should be treated with respect.

NB If you feel a post is too revealing, please contact Norah, site administrator, by using the link Report This Post. Norah normally errs on the side of caution, deleting apparently over-generous remarks.

I have no idea how these numerical puzzles are put together, and I am again blown away by how complex the logic is in the background.

I am, however, finding the endgame instructions a bit tricky to parse. Specifically I am hesitating over what values to write below the grid, so was hoping someone might be able to give me some reassurance that I am reading the instructions correctly.

Am I right to say that below the grid we should not enter the sums of the terms/letter values (despite that being what the text in the boxes says), but instead enter two three digit numbers which would be the second terms in the sequence if the sums were used as the first terms?

I hope that is not giving too much away!

I think it's pretty clear. "Solvers must write below the grid the sum of all 33 terms [ie including the two unclued ones, otherwise there are only 31] and the sum of the letter values [ie 27 numbers]."

Pressed "send" too early. "... expressed in a three-digit form etc." It's a unique number for each sum needed.

Thanks. It was the subsequent line of the instructions that had got me confused: "each expressed in a three-digit form that relates to the rule for the sequence".

Hence why I was thinking we had to use those sums as inputs to the sequence to get outputs that are each three digits, and then write those outputs under the grid.

Matteo, I think that your approach would require the rubric to say something like "... a three-digit form using the rule for the sequence".

If you think of the rule as having two parts, I have applied the second part to the totals. I'm comfortable with that.

Despite being an actuary, I much prefer "normal" crosswords to these numericals. However, this one was enjoyable - and I only used Excel to derive the universe of potential letter values.

Thanks, Elap.

rhsl - not sure one is really applying any part of the rule as far as I can see

I love these "numericals" &, having completed this one (Hopefully correctly!), I am already pining for late Nov when the next one will be published!

This one was a joy!

None of the actual Maths is beyond GCSE Foundation level, but it relies upon number sense & numeric logic: it is crucial that clues are presented in numerical order!

Grid filled, the Rule is easy to establish.

Applying the Rule, however, was completely gob-smacking:

How could any human have come up with 2 sets of numbers that relate to each other in the way that ELAP's do?

If this was the 13th Century, not the 21st, then I would have been leading the mob around to chez ELAP to burn him / her as a witch!

There are 2 small anomalies in ELAP's scheme as I see it, but:

They well be a pair, whose devious purpose I have not yet recognised.

I don't think that they will affect the final answers that I will write below / colour in on the Grid...

Even if I have messed up on the final hurdle, this puzzle has been a joy to work with!!!

I enjoyed this a lot - thanks Elap.

I thought the gridfill was a nice challenge, which didn't completely collapse towards the end as some do. I found the endgame clear and not too tedious.

I am quite disappointed by the lack of clarity in the final instruction though. I have the totals and have completed the puzzle. It would be tragic to be marked incorrect at this point for want of a better phrased preamble. I have applied only the "second step" of the rule. The whole thing seems an unnecessary final complication to me.

Otherwise a great puzzle, though, so thanks Elap

I have some sympathy as the preamble confused me too. If I was you I would ignore the reference to the rule and merely write the totals using three digits