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loge

3rd November 2020, 13:03
Yes, it's an error by omission which leads to an ambiguity, which I've already conceded. But I stand by my point that

The publishers of Chambers are open to corrections and suggestions, or at least they used to be. Why not write to them via the contact link on their web page?
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loge

3rd November 2020, 13:04
Sorry - ignore the incomplete sentence in the first paragraph, which I meant to delete.
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granama1

3rd November 2020, 13:40
'No dictionary is the ultimate authority....'

The official Scrabble dictionary is if that is what applies in a competition. It's reasonable for a setter to also say a particular version of, say, Chambers applies to a particular crossword.

This all raises the interesting question, if dictionaries cannot be the authority on anything, then who or what is?
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loge

3rd November 2020, 13:46
Well said, Granama1.
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tatters

3rd November 2020, 13:56
..who or what is???

I would recommend Ginge. Now in his 85th edition but still a notable omniscientist
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granama1

3rd November 2020, 14:05
It did get me pondering, if cirrate doesn't mean 'like a cirrus cloud' what word would apply (if there is one)? I propose 'cirrusy'! (:o)

PS The etymology of cirrate simply indicates 'with a curl'. (Assuming a Latin root).




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granama1

3rd November 2020, 14:09
Tatters, I look forward to seeing:

Ginge (2020) is recommended.

At the bottom of an Azed puzzle (;o)
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spoffy

3rd November 2020, 14:17
The fact that a second (or third etc) dictionary, or even a noted omniscientist, gives a different set of meanings or alternative spellings for a word doesn't mean that the first source is wrong.

Let's say that I want to use one of the words 'nala' and 'nalla' in a puzzle and I've been told that the arbiters will no longer accept "It's in Chambers" as sufficient justification for a particular definition.

Chambers gives both 'nala' and 'nalla' as 'a ravine; a watercourse; a stream or drain'. That's good, but under the new rules we need a VAR check. Thankfully I only need to go as far as the bookcase rather than to Stockley Park.

Consulting the all-knowing OED, I find that 'nala' is given as 'a river or stream; a watercourse, river-bed, ravine', so that looks ok (although it doesn't mention drains), but it doesn't give 'nalla' - there's obviously a Chambers error and I can't use that spelling in my puzzle. I start drafting my email to the editors of the big red book.

The ODE gives 'nala' as 'a watercourse, riverbed, or ravine', so nothing about rivers and streams, but perhaps it is using 'watercourse' in a general sense...it doesn't say, and I don't know how to find out. No sign of 'nalla', so it's clearly no good - I send my plaintive email, laced with the usual obsolete expletives, to Chambers.

Then I see that Collins gives both forms, however only in the sense of 'a ravine'. It must be ok to use 'nalla' (although my definition might have to be 'ravine'). I email a grovelling apology to Chambers. But then I start to think...perhaps Collins pinched the entry from Chambers, and the error has thus been propagated...? I send another mail (sans expletives) asking them to check.

None of the other UK dictionaries says that Chambers is wrong, either regarding 'nalla' or 'cirrate'. The OED gives 'cirrous' (along with 'cirrose') as meaning 'of or pertaining to cirrus clouds', but Chambers / Collins / ODE don't. So can 'cirrous' be defined in a puzzle by 'cloudy', even if only solvers with access to OED/SOED will be able to check it...?
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jono

3rd November 2020, 14:19
Granama @26,
The Shorter OED gives “cirrous” meaning “of or pertaining to cirrus clouds”.
It is also clear that “cirrate” meaning “fringed with cirri”, is a botanical term.
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jono

3rd November 2020, 14:22
On the question posed @23
I’d say the crossword editor is the ultimate authority for any given crossword. For instance the Guardian uses three reference sources - Chambers, Collins and Oxford. Even so, the editor has banned certain words that appear in those sources and allowed others that don’t. Ultimately a crossword’s ‘house style’ will determine what is or isn’t permitted.
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