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malone

20th October 2026, 14:54
Bobdown, thanks. One man's 'non sexually specific manner ' is one woman's 'half the population has ceased to exist'! 'Thanks, people' is fine, 'Thanks, folks' is fine and yes, 'Thanks, everyone' is fine too.

PS. Glad I could help with the Appletini clue, babe.
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bobdown

20th October 2026, 16:45
No worries, Malone. I work with mixed-sex groups of kids and youngsters at clubs and camps, and find addressing them as 'folks' or 'people' a bit inappropriate, and 'boys and girls' a tad patronising, and post Savile, no one is saying 'guys and gals', so I find the friendly and informal 'guys' to be not only gender neutral, but also non-age related - makes them feel a bit grown up, puts us on a more equal basis.

I think most authorities would agree with me that the etymology shows that particular word has moved to a widely accepted gender neutral status, and in that respect you may be interested in this article from The Grauniad from some years back.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2016/jun/10/you-dont-like-being-called-guys-come-on-people

Nonetheless, we have a deal, babe, and thanks indeed for your help on that clue. I am a competent engineer in many fields, but to be honest I find all that computer stuff a bit girly, if you know what I mean ; )







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malone

20th October 2026, 16:56
Thanks again, Bob... I don't mean to be rude but i don't care if 70, 80 or 90% of the population are happy with a word - if it grates, it grates! You'd probably not like MY little survey - where 100% of the sample resent being called 'guys', but I'll concede that the group involved is much smaller - five or six of us!

I can imagine kids and youngsters not wanting to be addressed as 'folks' or 'people' - I can also imagine that they'd never step over the doorstep of our nice Crossword Forum!

Re the computer stuff... I'm not interested in any aspect of that and have never thought of it being girly or boyish.
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bobdown

20th October 2026, 18:39
Hey Malone. As I said we have a deal, no prob. And don't worry about being rude, say what you have to say, I never take offence - to me that is internalising someone else's problem.
Did you read the article? There's also a link to an interesting blog on the subject.
And my reference to computer science being 'girly' was a strictly tongue-in-cheek response to your playful 'babe', hence my attempt at a wink emoji there ...







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malone

20th October 2026, 18:51
Thanks, Bob. No, I didn't read the article- it wouldn't do anything to make me warm to 'guys'. I think my detestation of the word partly springs from frequent trips to America. On virtually every meal out we'd be asked 'Would you guys like your water topped up?', 'Would you guys like to see the dessert menu?'.... grrrrr.

I thought I was being quite clever with my 'babe' - that's a neutral word now (for a certain age, demographic - not amongst the civilised, articulate classes) . I think it's also repulsive, but I can't have everything!

Computer stuff interests me so very little, I feigned the least amount of interest possible so that I wasn't seen to have ignored you.
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bobdown

20th October 2026, 19:23
Shame you didn't read both, interesting takes on semantics.

Were you 'guys' in America all female or mixed?

In what respect do you see 'babe' as neutral? I use it reciprocally with female friends, now and then, but wouldn't say it to a guy, and it is only used humorously.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your last sentence ....

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malone

20th October 2026, 19:40
Bob, if I read everything suggested to me, I'd have no time to read the things chosen by me.

There were two males and two females on the US trips, the US trips spanning over a decade and spanning the entire width of the country - so not just a local foible. As well as being used in restaurants, 'guys' was used in hotels, cinemas,museums...

I don't personally know any females who'd use the word 'babe' when speaking to a male, but I've heard it lots of times. A few examples...
On holiday in Turkey - 'When you go up to the room, babe, will you bring down my Kindle?' . On holiday in Nice, 'Where d'you fancy eating tonight, babe?'.
In various pubs in Britain - 'No ice, babe, remember no ice', 'ABC, babe, Anything But Chardonnay', 'What time are your mates getting here, babe?'


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bobdown

20th October 2026, 20:01
Well, you objected to 'guys' so why not read some fairly educated feminist responses to your objection?

And if you had this objection to 'guys' in the US, did you say something about it? What was the response?

As I said, in the circles I move in, 'babe' is just used imitatively and ironically ...



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malone

20th October 2026, 20:41
Bob, I seriously don't care enough to read 'some fairly educated responses'. My 'objection' wasn't terribly strong either - and I mentioned it really only because we had similar usage a week or two ago (and someone else pointed it out). I can see the logic behind your use of it elsewhere and I'm glad that this works for your kids and youngsters. My logic is that someone who is female is simply not a guy - and someone who is male is simply not a babe. It's not an outlandish stance! Yes. most authorities maybe do agree with you, but I'll continue to treat people how they'd like to be treated, address people how they'd like to be addressed*...

* My late mother-in-law liked letters to her to be addressed to Mrs John Smith. Every birthday card caused me great anguish, but I did my bit...
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mack

20th October 2026, 21:25
Thank you, both, for the entertainment. The world of the Listener Forum now seems very restrained. (Or should I say gentlemanlike and ladylike?)
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