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drxx

21st July 2020, 13:27
bananabean, in the 'Instructions' it states - ''the five-word subtitle... is cryptically represented by the 40 letters in the silver zone'' - not 40 'cells' (which would allow for blank cells) but 40 'letters'.
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drxx

21st July 2020, 13:36
...and how could the subtitle be cryptically represented if any one of the eight four letter synonyms was deficient in any way? And the two words running (staggeringly) through them must also remain intact.
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drxx

21st July 2020, 13:45
...although I have tried to change those 8 letters for (in part) the thing that is scrambled in row 5 and also THE thing that you've just mentioned... and various other possible synonyms to boot!
It's certainly not for the want of trying that I'm totally in agreement with your final paragraph.
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bananabean

21st July 2020, 14:14
drxx,
I agree that all 40 letters of the silver zone represent the five-word subtitle but why can't any of these letters be removed for the endgame?

By writing the subtitle below the grid you are proving that you know what it is.

By removing the letters as hinted by the title you are showing that you understand what is happening in Row 5.

By removing the scrambled synonym of the main character from Row 5 you are complying with the end of the poem.

I reckon you have to leave 19 cells blank.

If I am right then this puzzle is inordinately unfair so maybe there is a better solution.
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drxx

21st July 2020, 14:59
I'm not too keen on that idea, bananabean - it unravels more than it stitches together (for me, at least) so I'll stick with the minus 5 option I've had since day one... if I must.
As I see it, the silver zone is the 2nd area that shows some kind of completion (the 1st is the removal of the protagonists - leaving real words behind, which is fine).
The subtitle written under the grid doesn't prove anything, because it's explicitly requested in the 'Instructions' and easily found as soon as the source is identified - writing it under the grid doesn't show that we've cryptically interpreted it (so removing some of what demonstrates this must be wrong, I think).
Now - and this is where I get stuck on trying to resolve this puzzle - as it stands, the silver zone doesn't really demonstrate that we've understood its cryptic significance. It just falls out that way during the solve - and we're not asked to highlight anything that would prove we've 'got it'. But if the silver zone was realigned, that would prove something... and so I keep trying... but it became a chore some time back and I now think that (even if there is a brilliant new resolution) it's badly flawed as a puzzle and the Ed really needed another ed on the job - but, as cockie has pointed out...
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drxx

21st July 2020, 15:32
One final point from me before I quit -
Most of the 'minus 5' club (I think) would be content but for the title of the puzzle. Why on earth draw our attention to the two jumbles in row 5 - why even mention 'row 5' at all?
Take that out of the 'Instructions' and we'd all be home and (fairly) dry long before now... even with the small dark cloud of 'Leaving real words' floating over our heads.
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bananabean

21st July 2020, 15:44
drxx,
Clearly we both fully understand the silver zone. We could highlight (or remove) a letter in each column in this zone to demonstrate our understanding (if the words formed by the removed letters were written down) but Nimrod has not asked for that. Leaving the silver rectangle intact does not prove that it is understood.

Our attention is drawn to the title of the puzzle and the conclusion of the poem so they must be pivotal.
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drxx

21st July 2020, 16:24
I'm trying to exit the discussion but I will try to answer your point, bananabean.
As I tried to explain below, the silver zone, as it stands, doesn't prove anything, and yes - Nimrod could easily have got us to prove we understood it cryptically, but he hasn't. However, writing the subtitle under the grid doesn't prove anything either (do we agree on that?).
You agree with cockie (and the rest of us '5s') that removing the 5 letters leaves real words in the down entries if we discount the 5 blanks - but if you then remove the B or M from row 5 (or the N or T, going with the other option) you've made those real words non-words. Is that really a price worth paying for doing what the title might be asking us to do?
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drxx

21st July 2020, 16:30
...sorry, ignore the N - just the T for the other option.
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bananabean

21st July 2020, 16:38
drxx,
We agree that writing the subtitle below the grid proves nothing.

I think the synonymous character should disappear (as it does in Row 3 and in the poem) but I am not sure that the anagram of the title word should go.

I think there should be a better answer than the 3 that we are debating. Each one of them is fatally flawed.
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