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gitto

28th October 2017, 10:21
I'm afraid that this is yet another Listener that does not quite meet the standard one anticipates!
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stringendo

28th October 2017, 12:19
I agree Gitto. This is a one-glass offering. However, I did like 19A! What's worse for me is that despite a full grid, I have had no PDM yet!
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meursault

28th October 2017, 14:06
The theme could be interpreted to indicate the absurdity and futility of completing the puzzle. And really there isn't enough there for a Listener puzzle.

18 down doesn't conform with the other affected entries, since 2 of the 'added' letters are outside the entry.
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dryden

28th October 2017, 16:46
It's a perfectly good puzzle of the older Listener type. No madly complex web of ideas woven into some arcane theme. No frustratingly elusive endgame. A decent set of clues, rather more elegant than we had recently, and a hidden theme that emerges clearly with no ambiguities, unlike a recent offering. I wish a few more setters would construct grids like this, instead of the sloppy constructions we often get with entries that solve themselves because there are no unchecked letters.

The only fault is the one Meursault refers to regarding the third column. That is a pity, but I'm not going to let that blind me to the merits of the puzzle. I'm not saying it's a competition winner, but it's a very sound puzzle, as Llig's puzzles generally are. And if it's on the easy side that should suit a lot of contributors to Crossword Solver.

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meursault

28th October 2017, 20:46
Except, traditionally, the Listener takes longer to solve than the Times cryptic. If it doesn't then, de facto, it concedes the prestige of being the most difficult newspaper crossword, a claim which is already in doubt.

We know what the Listener editors are doing. In an attempt to boost a dwindling number of solvers, they're publishing quite a few very simple puzzles. It's a question of balance. This year there have already been perhaps 4 or 5 which take little longer to solve than the Times cryptic (which itself has been watered down over the years to a coffee-break puzzle).

So you attract more solvers, but what ultimately do you attract them to ?
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cloverjo

28th October 2017, 23:17
Well, it suits me. Some clues I can solve. I think I've got the theme. I'll keep going.

I'm sure there are more like me who like to be able to get into a Listener. If it's too difficult I don't bother. I like to look here and AB to see what the general consensus is on difficulty before I spend much time on it.

Enjoying it so far.
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gitto

29th October 2017, 06:07
To my mind there are plenty of alternatives to the listener that can enable solvers to become adept to varying different standards to which they aspire. The listener has always been regarded as the nemesis to which one aspires to defeat. Unfortunately the battle is often far shorter than I would prefer - if I want a 2-3 hour (or less) solve, there are plenty of alternatives, the listener should remain as the tour de force that it has historically proven to be.
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dryden

29th October 2017, 08:57
The balance hasn’t changed significantly over the last fifteen years or so. Each year there are usually between eight and a dozen puzzles that are significantly easier than average. I compared this year to 2006.
In that year there were twelve puzzles that I deemed to be noticeably harder than average. So far this year there have been twelve puzzles of similar difficulty. The idea that the Listener has got easier over the last fifteen years is a myth, unsupported by evidence.

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dryden

29th October 2017, 09:07
There seems to be a word limit on CS so I'm unable to post any more to complete my comment.
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ozzy

29th October 2017, 11:02
Regarding the message from across clues, surely the end result was fruitless, ie the items should end up back where they started rather than remain in the Down entries?
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