CancelReport This Post

Please fill out the form below with your name, e-mail address and the reason(s) you wish to report this post.

 

Crossword Help Forum
Forum Rules

rusty

5th February 2016, 13:59
Apparently, Elle, Kentish Town has no connection with Kent.
Mr Google reckons the name comes from "ken-ditch", meaning "bed of a waterway". It was a community which grew up beside the River Fleet.
I am disappointed in The Times, today, with a clue.
25, Dull-witted Apache for one, lacking heart and energy (5)
Answer, " inane".
Parse is Apache = Indian, lacking heart= inan, with e for energy, giving inane for dull witted.
But, the Apache people were not Indian, they were/are Native American.
Wonder how Richard Rogan would justify this clue?
5949 of 30765  -   Report This Post

malone

5th February 2016, 14:39
Rusty, Chambers gives one meaning of 'Indian' as '...belonging to the indigenous peoples of America...' The definition for 'Apache' is 'native American' - and the definition of 'Native American' is 'a member of the indigenous peoples of America' - so the clue seems to work, just!
5950 of 30765  -   Report This Post

rusty

5th February 2016, 15:04
Thank you, Malone!
I did not look it up.
I think Indian was used originally for the Native American peoples, and so entered the language, although it is obviously incorrect. I suppose Chambers are correct in defining the word according to its usage. That's what dictionaries are for!
I shall give way to Chambers, but wish the setter had chosen another method of getting "inane"!
I know " apache" is part of the French language now.
5951 of 30765  -   Report This Post

malone

5th February 2016, 15:12
Sorry, Rusty, I hope I didn't come over as giving you a lecture?! Your post interested me, so I was happy to do a bit of exploring (in Chambers). It wasn't until I was an adult that I realised how bad we - meaning my generation- had been, referring to the Native Americans as 'Red Indians'. Ever since then, I've tried to remember to use the correct terminology - not always successfully. Until today, I personally would never have used the 'Indian' designation - thinking/assuming this was wrong.
5952 of 30765  -   Report This Post

rusty

5th February 2016, 15:15
Malone, I just downloaded the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.
I think it is the US equivalent of Chambers.
Free, unlike Chambers!
Anyway, they have Indians meaning the Native Americans,
also American Indians meaning the same.
I'll let The Times off, on this occasion!
5953 of 30765  -   Report This Post

rusty

5th February 2016, 15:23
Crossed posts, Malone!
No, I certainly did not think it was a lecture, more of a
kindred spirit digging away at the facts, as I would do!
And I certainly agree with you on using the correct terminology for the Native Americans.
That is what irked me with The Times clue today.
5954 of 30765  -   Report This Post

pigale

5th February 2016, 15:40
Hi everyone,

Am I correct in saying that we used to refer to the people from India as Hindus, and not to 'Indians' as is often seen nowadays? The difference between the true American people and the People from India was then more obvious.
5955 of 30765  -   Report This Post

malone

5th February 2016, 16:04
Rusty, glad the clue is only poor rather than wrong!

Pigale, I grew up in Scotland and the Indians were always Indians. I don't think I ever heard or saw them being referred to as Hindus.
5956 of 30765  -   Report This Post

rusty

5th February 2016, 16:06
Hello, Pigale!
You may be correct, Pigale, but I do not remember it.
I think the thing arose from Columbus' time.
Did he not think he had landed in India, rather than America?
And called the folk he met, the Indians, rather than, the Americans?
5957 of 30765  -   Report This Post

elle

5th February 2016, 16:53
Hi, Rusty!
We haven't been home long.......we took the dog out again before it started to go dark. Not a very nice afternoon - drizzly.
I told you I have been behind times all day!
Dratted alarm clock!
You did well to find out about Kentish Town. Now, I have heard of the River Fleet - but I don't think it exists as such any more? I think it has become one of London's "underground" rivers?
Your clue has started up a lot of "chat" about "Indians" versus Native Americans"!
I couldn't have added much to the discussion had I been here, though.
I think the word "Indian" might have been used more as an adjective rather than as a noun?
I haven't heard of a "Hindu" being used as other than a follower of the religion "Hindusism"?
So you think I had the correct answer for Quizmad's puzzle? I'm sure his word count is wrong - there is no other answer possible is there?
5958 of 30765  -   Report This Post