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rusty

3rd August 2017, 14:53
Update, Elle!
Chambers gives "s" for "son(s)".
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elle

3rd August 2017, 15:22
Hi, Rusty!
Uhm........ okay, I can certainly go with "roll" meaning "list"...although I would never have got it!
And by a wide stretch of imagination....and a slight distortion of the eardrums..... maybe "fina" could pass for "finer" (altho not the way I speak!)
But "er" sounding like "a"...?
And yet, I think you are correct in thinking this is where the compiler is coming from?
I think you are brilliant to have come up with this!
I have been puzzling all the morning!
So what did you think of 24 down, then?
Another Cockneyism......sort of !
I know you don't do the QC, but there were also two homophones in there.
Did you see my earlier post about on screen TV guides.... I didn't go back to bed!
But brain has hopefully engaged gear now!
And next week's Athletics coverage is all shown in the evening - so my daytime arrangements will not interfere with my viewing!
( My Chambers doesn't give that abbreviation of "s"!)
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rusty

3rd August 2017, 16:31
Hello, Elle!
Yes, I can understand the crossword editor letting "fina/finer" go, as many (not me) folk may speak thus.
But "er" for "a" is plain wrong...in my opinion.
24, To be honest, Elle, as soon as I see Clackmannanshire, I think Alloa, and did not do the parse.
And I do not know what Cockneys shout when they are 'unting.
I knew there was a "view halloo" shout in hunting.
But Chambers assures me "halloo" and "halloa" are used, too.
I can go forward 7 days in my EPG to set my programme on TV.
i am amazed your Chambers lacks "son(s)".
Mine has,
s or s. abbrev: second(s); section; shilling; singular; son(s); succeeded.
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rusty

3rd August 2017, 16:41
Update, Elle!
I looked up the Oxford Dictionaries website,
They have "s" for "son(s)" too.
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kenyatta

3rd August 2017, 17:10
If I may intrude on the subject of 'er' sounding like 'a', this is quite common, particularly with the indefinite article when a solitary 'a' is used. If my EFL teaching memory is correct, this is known as a schwa.
I stand ready to be corrected!
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rusty

3rd August 2017, 17:29
Hello, Kenyatta.
You are certainly not intruding!
I will not be correcting you as I have not the faintest idea what an indefinite article is!
I shall investigate "schwa". New to me, and that's good!
I like to learn things!
"Er" does not sound like "a" to me, though.
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elle

3rd August 2017, 17:35
Hi, Rusty!
My Chambers 13th edition of ill repute has the following:-
S or S. abbrev: Sabbath; Saint; schilling; Society; soprano (music); South; Southern; spades(cards) ; special; square; stokes; strangeness (phys); sun; Sweden (IVR).
Surprisingly, very different from yours!
Our rainy day never arrived, so we have been out doing a bit of gardening.
We do not have a particularly large garden - not very many London properties do - unless you reach the millionaire class!
But it is of a manageable size.
I have a lot of pots on my patio - and I really love these.......more so than the garden flower beds.
They are looking very pretty.
Will your son be arriving shortly?



Hello, Kenyatta!
I do not know anything about teaching English as a foreign language.....so cannot comment on what you have just said in that respect.
I thought though that "schwa" meant an indistinct sound?
I have never heard anyone who annunciates clearly sounding "a" as "er"?
One surely, for instance, would not say ' "er" cat' when meaning 'a cat'?
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cerasus

3rd August 2017, 17:45
How would anyone here pronounce the first vowel in 'alone' ?
I think, for me that would be similar to 'er' or even 'uh'. Does that count as a schwa ?
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chrise

3rd August 2017, 17:48
Either "a" (ah-lone) or the notorious "schwa" (uhlone) for me, cerasus (depending on how careful I was being), but never "er", I think!
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elle

3rd August 2017, 17:50
If that were how you would pronounce the word - as "erlone" or "uhlone" - then yes, I think that would be a "schwa"?
Kenyatta may get back to us and elucidate?
It isn't how I would say "alone" though?
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