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chrise

20th January 2015, 18:49
Thanks again, jolan
I had the three I thought I had . I don't think I'd have got #1 and #2 however long I'd had!
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andyc

20th January 2015, 18:52
Thank you Jolan.

I couldn't get no.2 I got caught up with waist being an anchor and your nautical background.
Enjoyed it very much though.

Andy
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jolan

20th January 2015, 22:01
Oh, brill! Thank you folks. AB 5/5 + excellent parsing. Ari, a full house also. Andy and Jazzy with 4/5 and so on. Wonderful solvers!

AB I include #2 below, as I saw it. After all my years poking around crossies, I've never understood fully the meaning if "& lit", although I've read the various definitions. I must look at them again.

Was my #2 an "& lit"?

2. UNDER ONE’S BELT = firmly and irrevocably secured (a Chambers exact def)
the "waist" bit joins up with the definition showing what's likely to by "under one's belt".

Comments, please?

Off to my virtuous couch now - I'll sign in tomorrow afternoon.
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les40

21st January 2015, 02:03
Hi Jolan,

If you'll allow me, I'm a great fan of the &lit clue and whilst also being a great lover of 'The surface read' I often endeavour to eke one out if it is at all possible, however, in my own opinion, they are the hardest clues to construct and it is usually a very happy day if one falls my way.
The best way I can think of explaining them is:
When reading the whole clue, that whole clue has all the parts of the wordplay in it with no redundant fodder.

Then read it again, and the whole clue is now the definition in it's entirety with no redundant fodder.

This is an old one from The Guardian by Rufus:

I'm a leader of Muslims (4)

I'M + a + M (leading letter of M (uslims)

You can see that it has all the necessary parts of the cryptic make-up

Then read it again and it is the Definition in it's entirety)

AND

There is a thing called a 'Semi & lit' (You may see me call them 'Partials' on this site.

Semi &lit clues also define the answer word in their surface - however, not all of the clue will make up wordplay that also makes the answer word. Usually, the part of the clue that doesn't form part of the wordplay will be a noun such as 'THAT' or 'THEM' or 'IT' or 'HE'.


Here is an example of a 'Semi & lit -
Trained orca amuse in them (11)

trained - anagram indicator
orca amuse in - fodder
them - end of definition as a whole

Answer: (OCEANARIUMS*)

I do hope that sheds some light.
Anyone else feel free to add if you think I've we need anymore explanation.

Missed your clues today Jolan but just had a peek and you never seem to wane on your quality of clue construction, keep up the good work.
You never know, we may see you slip in a few &lits from now on.
I feel the regulars will be very impressed if you can muster a &lit every week...
...sounds like a challenge.

Your clue at No2 in my opinion doesn't quite follow this rule of thumb and I would say it's a 'Double Definition'
Take care, Les40.

PS: When doing crosswords from the newspapers (especially the broadsheets) remember that a &lit clue will (nearly) always have a exclamation mark at the end - !
I used to believe it also applied when a question mark - ? was present, but now know that the question mark is added when the clue is of a novelty value or a cheeky cryptic def that points out that you may have to think outside the box, usually resulting in what Paul & BBM2 often call 'Penny Drop' clues.

Goodnight.


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jolan

21st January 2015, 13:42
A million thanks, Les (40). Very clear. Methinks it will be a long time before I feel confident enough to set this type of clue. I'll surely give it a try.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to clear "& lits" up for me. You're very kind.

J
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