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les40

1st October 2013, 23:18
I remember the saying 'Going postal' very well and aristo is quite right in that it originated in the late 80's in America when a surprising amount of (indoor mail centre) postal workers lost the plot at work and outside work which resulted in people being shot, subsequently it became synonymous with anyone losing the plot and going crazy with a firearm. It was around the same time as the (now well famed) saying 'Bunny boiler' was coined from Fatal Attraction to mean any woman who acts in a over possessive, jealous and disturbing fashion towards a man.
I was a postal worker from 1986 - 1999 which is why I think it sticks in my memory.
I have also known a couple of the latter in my time.
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redundantelf

1st October 2013, 23:41
Hi Magic Mikey.

I participate in several crossword blogs and the one thing that always comes through 'loud and clear', is that crossword setting does not appear to be a lucrative way of earning a crust. Therefore I do try not to berate any particular setter as they all do their best and should be appreciated for their efforts.

I (like you) have participated in the ST clue writing competition for some time and have been fortunate in being in the 'good clues' and not so fortunate I appearing in the 'other clues category (spared the name and shame) ' several times.

I have no particular axe to grind but I do agree with your comments about crossword editors - it's up to them to maintain the standard.
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kitabu

2nd October 2013, 09:20
Thank you all - lots of things to think about there. Many thanks to redundantelf for the link and no it didn't make feel better disposed towards Mr Mayer! I do feel that if someone is going to spend hours (I'm a newbie to crosswords so it does take me a few hours spread over two or three days!) on a crossword, then the paper has a responsibility to apply some rigour to it. My feeling is that the ST is rather slap dash in this respect (last week they got the spelling of Teresa , as in Mother Teresa, wrong and this is not the first time that such errors have occurred), Spellings of proper names have differed from the house style used by the rest of the Sunday Times and Mr Mayer is a perfect example of this lack of rigour - not least because his clues often don't parse properly with extraneous words etc. My feeling is that these things don't change unless they are pointed out and so may well still write to the ST. Not expecting much of a response though......
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redundantelf

2nd October 2013, 09:36
Fair enough kitabu (I remember the mother Teresa clue). I've attached a link with some email addresses. Good luck with your correspondence and keep on with your new hobby :)

https://login.thesundaytimes.co.uk/links/contact
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redundantelf

2nd October 2013, 09:37
Sorry, I'll try that link again :)

http://login.thesundaytimes.co.uk/links/contact
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kitabu

2nd October 2013, 10:12
Thanks redundantelf!
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salix

3rd October 2013, 09:23
No it isn't just you. I usually manage to complete the ST cryptic even if it takes me a few days but I have almost given up bothering with Dean Mayer. I sometimes use this forum for help in parsing some clues but when I have to resort to the forum for the majority then the pleasure has been lost. There is no satisfaction then in completing the puzzle.
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busby

3rd October 2013, 10:13
I don't do the crossword you are all discussing. But I am of the opinion "every clue should work".
I don't understand every clue I read, maybe because I'm new to cryptic cross wording and I'm still learning.
Coming across clues that don't work doesn't help me to understand the "big picture". Every clue published should work, somehow or other.
Maybe it's up to ourselves as solvers to "figure out why a clue may work".
PS: I'm not supporting Dean Mayer, and spelling mistakes are a "NO,NO".
Every clue should be "parseable".
That's my little rant on this subject






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anaxcrosswords

9th February 2014, 22:23
Hello everyone.
I’ve only just come across this forum via a Google search, and I’m delighted to see it. In this centenary year of crosswording it’s great to see discussion alive and flourishing.
When Pete took over editorship he also brought in a new setting team. The result is that setting standards have actually improved a great deal but, of course, to those familiar with the way things used to be it can be a difficult transition.
I don’t want to get overly technical here, but cryptic clue-writing – traditionally at least – has been split into two camps, namely Ximenean and Libertarian. But in recent years these camps have moved closer together, partly because there are now more setters working for several different newspapers. While each series has a number of in-house rules (mostly technical and a bit boring!) each setter does have a personal style which crosses over to all of their outlets.
Before taking over the Sunday Times editorship, PB operated the Times for The Times blog – he has also won the Times Crossword Championship on a number of occasions – so his pedigree is almost entirely grounded in the pretty strict rules of the Times style, ie mostly – not absolutely – Ximenean.
As a result, Sunday Times puzzles are almost as rigorously Ximenean as their weekday counterparts, and my own experience is that editing of submitted puzzles is done very carefully, usually via telephone discussion. I can say with confidence if that a clue’s wordplay breakdown initially bamboozles, all will become clear if you examine it more closely. The task of the setter was best put by recently retired Times crossword editor Richard Browne – ‘to hide things in broad daylight’.
As for using phrases such as ‘go postal’ and ‘hotdogging’, it is true that these – and other – contemporary phrases haven’t yet been incorporated by all dictionaries, but there are a couple of things to remember; in the case of the ST, Collins is the preferred source of definitions – but an actual headword listing therein is not always a requirement. Also, setters seek to exploit current (and sometimes unusual) language trends. The English language is unique in its etymological backgrounds and multiplicity of synonyms for single words and different meanings of single words, and these are being added to constantly, often more quickly than dictionaries can keep up with. Part of the delight of cryptic setting is discovering how our language is being used right now.
All of that said, cryptic setting and editing is a human process, and occasionally errors will be made – we’re no different to anybody else. The Mother Theresa example is interesting, by the way. While its erroneous inclusion in a cryptic wasn’t in one of my puzzles, I did accidentally misspell it in the concise puzzle – fortunately it was spotted during editing and I found an alternative answer.
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ixion

10th February 2014, 04:55
Always nice to see the professionals popping in Anax...plenty of discussion here all right and informal clue writing competitions on a Tues (Clueless) and Thurs (Peer Review)..not forgetting Les40's Joint Effort, a monthly multi-setter crossword.
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