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Malone, this at least is on point on which you agree with Elle...!!!

Sorry, should read 'one point' of course!

Hello, Malone.
I agree with you regarding the solvers mostly choosing Chambers.
I have looked up the Oxford Dictionary of English, which calls itself the "Authority on the English language", and the "rail" which is in Chambers, is not there.
How can we check that Chambers meaning is correct?

Thanks, Rusty.I remember feeling outraged a few years ago when I discovered that the Times used Chambers, but I'd never seen a specific mention of this.

I don't think we CAN check if the Chambers meaning is correct!

I also think the Everyman crosswords have been pretty shoddy since the previous, excellent setter left - but they've been shoddy in many areas, not just this specific (and unfair to some) clue.

Elle, I'd read the Everyman stuff and have found it very interesting. I feel sorry for solvers who've lost a puzzle they could rely on and now have one that causes so much annoyance.

Hi, Rusty!
I raised a point way back now, in an earlier post to you, that I think you may not have seen and has now become buried....
Can you scroll back and find it - post 25623 - about potential mistakes that might conceivably be "accepted"?

Pigale, I saw your post, but forgot to respond - sorry. Yes, it looked a really poor specimen of a puzzle to me. Brendan, a Forum poster, had mentioned it to me this morning and I looked at it then.

Hello, Malone,
I am fairly sure that Rose Wild, Feedback Column, in The Times said they used Collins Dictionary, and Fowlers Dictionary for grammar and style guidance. (And there were other books mentioned as well!)
But I would have thought that the crossword puzzle setters would be completely independent of whatever dictionaries The Times uses.
After all, The Times subcontracts the setters to create the puzzles.
The setters are not The Times employees.
The Everyman puzzles certainly seem to be causing a stushie!

Hello, Elle!
I have read your post now.
It is a devil keeping up today!
I do not think mistakes would be accepted, nor should they be.
Very occasionally an error may creep into a clue or answer, but in the main I think the setters do a great job entertaining us.
And I, for one, really appreciate them.

Hi, Rusty!
Yes, I do so agree with you that the majority of setters do a fantastic job.
And I fully appreciate their efforts.
But these last few weeks, I do not think this can be said of the Everyman puzzles.
Indeed, I was quite relieved to read Cersasus' link, and discover that others shared my viewpoint, and I was not alone in my disappointment.
Maybe the situation will improve, after those comments on the Fifteen Squared website?
I can but hope......
I hope there is better weather for your golf tomorrow!

Rusty, thanks for your interesting post at 22.47. When I mentioned the Times using Chambers, I was thinking of the crossword setters.

Yes, the stushie over the Everyman puzzles has been going on for weeks. It's not the Observer's fault that the usual setter decided to down tools (pen and paper, I expect), but perhaps they shouldn't have been so reliant on only one setter? The Times has a small team of setters for the daily, weekend and Mephisto puzzles. They all have their own style, of course, and varying degrees of difficulty, and I expect the same goes for the pool of Guardian setters.

As for dictionaries... I believe most setters prefer Chambers as it validates more obscure words, has a fuller range of archaisms and features Scottish and other regional variations.

Elle, I hope your Everyman puzzles return in their former glory! The deft touch and elegance seem to have been missing since the usual setter left.