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elle

2nd January 2017, 12:37
Hi, Rusty!
Yes, I got 20a right away thanks to the similarity of the previously given clue!
Yes "ne/ nee " are French.
Both are in Chambers.
Now that is interesting about what Malone says about "ne" meaning the name originally given to a titled man.
Yes, it does say that in Chambers........I didn't read it properly ( sorry , Malone!)
However, .....it doesn't give that definition of "ne" in my French dictionary!
But indicates male or female usage of "ne (e)".
Perhaps Pigale will help us out here?
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pigale

2nd January 2017, 12:50

Elle, bar the (unknown to me) meaning Malone has highlighted,
'ne' is the participle of the verb naitre = to be born (il est ne)
and seldom do dictionaries give verbs in their conjugated form.

I can't do accents either - not available on my particular set up.
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elle

2nd January 2017, 12:54
All this started , Pigale, because I queried the feminine form being used in apparent connection to Shaw!
But it could have had nothing to do with the first part of the clue!
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pigale

2nd January 2017, 12:57
I know Elle, and had I done that crossword, I would have queried this point too.

No sun here - just grey and cold, with a possibility of a little snow this afternoon - if the forecast has got it right!
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elle

2nd January 2017, 13:02
Thank you for that , Pigale , you have made me feel better!
Beautiful here...I am just waiting for my daughter and the children to arrive.
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rusty

2nd January 2017, 13:41
Hello, Elle,
I think the clue is sound.
"Playwright and born" should be considered separate elements in the clue.
For me, anyway.
I do not like "Indian", however.
That is inaccurate, although it is widely used regarding Native Americans.
I have just spoken to a very nice lady at Sky who has continued my discount until October, and told me to phone her in mid September and she will continue it for another year!
Very pleasing!
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elle

2nd January 2017, 15:20
Hi, Rusty!
Yes, I agree that the clue is fine if the two are considered as separate elements - but I would have found it more satisfactory had they dovetailed; had there been a female playwright called "Shaw" for instance!
No matter!
I knew you wouldn't like the terminology of the clue!
I am playing board games with BB - to the chagrin of YB who tries to take away the counters!
We have stopped for a "tea break"...... but I am losing!
Beautiful here....have you been out for a walk?
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rusty

2nd January 2017, 15:34
Hello, Elle,
No walk.
I was phoning Sky and BT.
Then sorting out certificates and wills etc.
I got a fine folder in ASDA for that purpose.
It is the setter's task to mislead you, but also to send you in the direction of the answer.
A difficult skill.
Shaw and nee work perfectly, I think.
The setter had "playwright born", "Shaw nee"
You are presuming he meant Shaw was born.
He does not. He used a ruse to mislead you, by placing the two words together.
Temperature is dropping here!
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elle

2nd January 2017, 16:59
Hi, Rusty!
I finally lost in the game of "Ludo"!
The children have had an early tea and have now gone home.
It will be about a forty minute drive.
Their dad should have finished all his school marking and preparation of lessons by that time.
I have been persuaded by my daughter to go shopping with her on Wednesday!
All the children will be back at school by then so the shops should be quieter......and we do need to buy birthday presents.....so I have succumbed to pressure!
We shall have lunch, too, so that went some way to entice me!
It is becoming a busy week......
I learned a new word in the Times QC - samphire; it is a plant.
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rosalind

2nd January 2017, 17:28
You clearly don't watch cookery programs. elle! Samphire grows by the sea (and indeed my local Tesco, about as far from the sea as you can get in the UK) has it sometimes. Hardly a cookery program using fish doesn't have its quota of samphire.
It is also called glasswort and in some places you can pick your own, free!
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