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xij

12th November 2017, 19:55
Doh. Of course. I was using B as bible. Thanks.
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ionacarr

12th November 2017, 20:17
I've just completed the grid but not the end game, and I'm surprised that no-one has asked the questions I can't answer:

1. In 21 the third letter as required by the definition in the clue is an A, but the letter as required by the 3-word phrase would be U; the word if spelt with a U doesn't match the definition in the clue - which is correct?
2. In the same cell, 28 requires an L - surely LAU isn't one of the clashes, as it has nothing to do with the neat framework created by the other nine?
3. But having said that, the top row of that framework suggests the start of a helpful phrase, only to muddy things by throwing in a superfluous clash NG, where TH is required
4. And then, what does 'among others' mean? How are we supposed to know which of the un-clashing cells contain(s) additional letters needed for the phrase?
5. Finally, if a 'closed outline' is drawn through the omitted letters, it doesn't spell anything, just a sequence of 32 letters with a phrase hidden within them - is that what is needed?

The meaning of the title (sorry, me neither) is the least of my worries.
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crucifer

12th November 2017, 20:34
Too many questions, Iona Carr, to answer without giving the game away, which others do, but I won’t. Just...think outside the box
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ionacarr

12th November 2017, 20:54
That was one of the questions I was asking: the phrase is *not* spelt by the cells with the clashes. I have completed the puzzle as instructed by the hints in the preamble, but the components of the solving process are far from being neat and tidy, which just spoils the enjoyment.

Let's take it one point at a time: which of the three possible letters do others have in the third cell of 21 and 28?
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krauton

12th November 2017, 21:13
there is only one letter in the third cell of 21 as this is an extra word clue.
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krauton

12th November 2017, 21:17
sorry 28 is an extra word clue and it has no clashes
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gitto

12th November 2017, 21:17
Ionacarr, isn't 21d something you put in a light socket? I can't give the game away because I haven't got it yet. Helping me parse 16a and 17a would be helpful - I have the answers and I thought I understood 16a - but now I doubt it.
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orson

12th November 2017, 21:28
For 16a I thought
R = recipe
YAK = waffle
II = two
TE = tea cut by a third
A Japanese marinade, "cut" the extra word.
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krauton

12th November 2017, 21:31
16a marinade recipe (cut) waffle in two after brews reduced by a third.
teriyaki
te (tea -a) r (recipe) yak (waffle) in ii (two).
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meursault

12th November 2017, 21:37
Well, seeing as this is a crossword help forum, I'm happy to give away what little I know. And you don't have to look if you don't want to...how many times are we going to have to rerun this stale argument ? It was settled many years ago on this forum.

I think 21 is BLAB (AB unclued), so there is an A/L clash with ALLEGRI.

17 is NISI, the S is unclued. NII is the equivalent of TOO except 6 letters back.
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