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tango

1st February 2018, 09:34
Oh dear I seem to have put pategensis; highly embarassing, according to Wombats Insectoplantia it is "patagensia". I had gone with the popular american spelling.

Silly me.
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asetter

1st February 2018, 10:23
Meursault@19 - I totally agree with the last sentence of your post. Regulation (whatever the motivation) cannot be appropriate in the world of puzzles, where enjoyment is surely the sole meaningful objective. The small sums of money on offer for both setters and solvers is a positive benefit in that regard. And it wasn't my intention to single out any particular medium or helper in my appeal, which is simply for moderation: when someone wants a hint for a particular clue, give them a hint; when they want a solution, give them a solution with a comprehensible explanation; when they want to know where a piece of the jigsaw should go, don't show them the picture on the box. And if they don't say what they want, start with a hint - I can't escape the feeling that the responses on at least one forum are frequently driven by a 'who can type the answer fastest' competition resulting in a barrage of one-word posts (with that word not always being correct). There are few better ways in my experience to stop people developing skills than by responding to requests for a little assistance with "That's too difficult for you. Give it here and I'll do it."

Tango's original post started with the line 'Not all crossword people are over 70'. This is true [I'm under 70], but as witnessed by a recent poll on another site, a very large proportion are over 60. For crosswords to survive as a mainstream entertainment we need to encourage solvers of all ages, and if the pastime is perceived as being dominated by an old guard who take a 'no assistance' approach or by experts who want to give help only on their own terms, we have a serious problem.
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meursault

1st February 2018, 10:58
Asetter, I like the way you got the conversation back to Tango's post. Yes, my apologies to Tango for hijacking your thread.

My justification is an important issue though, it amounts to freedom of speech. There was a menace in Europe about 70 years ago who would also have removed our freedom of speech (just look at what happened to those brave students in 1942/3 who campaigned under the banner 'White Rose'). Thankfully our forbears adopted an 'us and them' approach in order to deal with the problem.
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mamya

1st February 2018, 13:30
Trust me, my comments weren't meant to stifle debate on the subject - more a throwaway observation.

I have seen these types of discussions before and overall they aren't for me.

I'm nowhere near good enough to join some of the regular weekly threads and with the constraints of my partial sight I enjoy this forum the best I can when I can.

Happy puzzling and chatting.x
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tango

1st February 2018, 15:23
To be fair, saying people are in a "kerfuffle" and "wound up" and using "these types of discussions" may disencourage debate. It rather belittles them.

You are of course absolutely entitled to consider this not for you and I certainly don't want to publicly criticise you for that.

I'll therefore reply to the subject of your message only. This seems to be that it is pointless to engage with issues like this on a public forum. I rather disagree.

After all, this page is actually titled a "forum" not "find your answers here".I worry that that intelligent discussion and debate of all topics is a much maligned practice these days.

Those setters who have read this will perhaps consider how they approach clue setting and those solvers who assume the setters are just "grumpy old men" may actually think twice when they read Asetters rather enlightening comments. That is my experience.

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mamya

1st February 2018, 16:58
If speaking as I find is considered belittling then I'm sorry.

I count myself amongst the helpful members of this site over the years.

If my replies have been taken as such please use the report facility.
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tango

1st February 2018, 17:05
Certainly not going to do that!

I was careful not to criticise you personally as, not only would that be unmerited, I am sure you have made greater contributions to this site that most, certainly than me.

My point is simply that I consider your conclusion that some parts of this discussion are a "kerfuffle" etc. incorrect and possibly unfair and, in that, I am also speaking as I find.
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chrise

1st February 2018, 17:11
mamya, I'm quite sure that tango intended no offence. Counting yourself as "amongst the most helpful members of this site" is undervaluing your contributions - "the most helpful" wouldn't be overstating the case!
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mamya

1st February 2018, 17:27
That's very kind, sorry if I've been ratty.x
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tango

2nd February 2018, 13:11
Case in point, times cryptic 1306
Fish 1
Birds 2
Ducks: 1
Plants: 1
Other animals: 3
Religious Feast: 1
Pre-war reference: tick
Pre-war idioms: tick
Pre-2000 film: tick
Early folklore reference: tick
Cockney missing h used: tick
Nothing about North of England: tick
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