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Hi,

I have written to you on this thread as i do not wish to disrupt clueless.

Firstly, thank you for your considered response.

Secondly, yes, i did withdraw my post after reading both your posts. I strongly feel, that there is a very fine line between humour (however quirky and off the wall) that amuses and humour that may/can cause offence. Whilst i fully appreciate that julianandsandy may have been funny 50 years or so ago on the radio. I feel that we have, (hopefully) moved on as a society to a much nicer tolerant and accepting world, where words and connotations such as the ones used in your clues, have no relevant place, even in crossword clues.

I respectively suggest that if J&S continue to contribute to the forum (and i hope they will) they humbly drag themselves into the present day and therefore, accordingly modify the language they use.

I hope i have explained how i feel correctly, i do not wish under any circumstances to get into a lengthy discussion or argument about this ---- but i felt i had to be honest and say what i feel.
Thank you.

If you wish to withdraw your posts it is entirely your decision and i appreciate the gesture. I will, however, stick with my decision to retire for this week.

bobs mum



I

Dear bobs mum

Thanks for your reply.

julianandsandy

I had hoped that this thread may have attracted some comment but I suppose that was too much expect so I'll do so myself.
First of all why post as 'julianandsandy'? Well, it's like a black comedian using the N-word or a Jew telling anti-semitic jokes - it's OK if you are making fun of yourself or your group.
Bobs mum says that Jand S are no longer funny but there has been a lot of activity on the forum based on these characters with a lot of positive comments. A J and S clip was awarded as an online prize (not by me) and I won CLUELESS with an off-colour J and S clue.
I don't know if bobs mum didn't see the irony of the posts or did so but was still offended but I think it a shame that we have to be so politically correct.

Here in the US we're living in a sort of police state; a person's life can be ruined because of some careless comment that might have been made in the spirit of deliberate outrageousness. A comment that can be construed as anti-gay will get a child expelled from school, and people often lose their jobs over a single phrase that might even have been taken out of context, never to work in their chosen field again. As rambler points out, it often depends on who makes the comment; for some it is acceptable, for others evil, and someone gets to decide who can say what. What I find truly amazing is how often I hear terms like "white trash" used by both white and non-white people, even in the mainstream media, and it seems to be perfectly acceptable, as much so as, say, anti-religious bigotry. I happen to be white, and was fortunate enough to be reared in a household that fostered tolerance and love for all races, or, more accurately, a blindness to race, and I don't understand why my own race can be vilified with impunity. I also don't understand why we even have to identify ourselves by race and ethnic group on every form we fill out; what is supposed to encourage racial tolerance ends up instilling racial obsession. I have often refused to thus identify myself, only to be told that a form won't be accepted if I don't do so. I think we're moving backwards, into an enforced correctness that is stultifying and determined by subjective judgement, according to which it's damnable to, say, make negative comments about Islam while condemning Christianity is de rigeuer. We're also becoming humorless.

Good Evening

While you both make excellent comments and to be fair I agree the world has gone PC mad and yes it is okay to make fun of yourself or your group. But it is better if you know your audience and I didn't know the story behind Julian and Sandy and to be quite honest have spent the last year wondering about the J and S clues posted by other forum members! Just because a name is used we can't presume their sexuality, race or ethnicity. What name could someone use to be able to use the n-word and not cause offence?

Now no one can ever accuse Bobsmum of being humourless and unable to enjoy and spot irony. She certainly has a naughty sense of humour and would probably agree with the points made by you both but there really are certain words that should only be used with like minded people as I said know your audience.

Rambler perhaps you have to ask yourself why other people didn't comment!!

Hello, rossim. I certainly wasn't accusing bobs mum of being humorless, and I've read some of her saucy posts. I was just saying that we've created an atmosphere in which people are afraid to talk. I think I'm careful in my own speech, but I'm willing to cut others a little slack. We're all brought up in startlingly different environments, and one shouldn't be burned at the stake for betraying one's opinions if they aren't the official ones. I'd rather point out someone's insensitivity than have him arrested. Heck, I've even gotten used to rambler's comments about us loud, vulgar Americans, having tried to see my compatriots as a supercilious Brit sees them. :)
By the way, African-Americans often use the N-word. I wonder if there's a cutoff for ancestry percentage to determine when it's acceptable and when it isn't.

Hi Aristophanes

I can only reiterate that I agree with the comments you made. And yes I am all for cutting people a bit of slack I can - in my own world - say certain things that I would never dream of saying to people I don't know. For all we know J and S could actually be homophobic!!! And you give as good as you get where Rambler is concerned and it is good banter.

You mention being burnt at the stake for betraying one's opinions well that applies to Bobsmum as that was all she was doing. Surely it works both ways and I won't call you surely again:)

I can't disagree with anything you have said apart from its Emrach not Rossim. x

I was just about to post an apology for calling you rossim, emrach. I really need more sleep. Of course it would help if I could put faces to your names.

Depends on the face:) No apology necessary.

Night x

To misquote somebody or other......... The present is a foreign country, they do things differently now.