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bullfrog

30th November 2009, 16:38
I'd be intereted in your feedback on a couple of clues today:

7d. Little trimmers! (4,8) The answer is NAIL CLIPPERS, but to me that just looks like a straight definition. Can anyone see any wordplay?

11a. Kelly becomes well-informed by following one who wrote nonsense (7) Obviously LEARNED, but I've always understood the convention (in the Guardian at least) to be that the definition (in this case 'well-informed') should be first or last in the clue, yet here it's buried in the middle. Wouldn't 'Well-informed, Kelly follows one who wrote nonsense' have been more appropriate?
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big dave

30th November 2009, 16:41
I haven't done this puzzle, but the first clue is probably a play on clippers as ships and I like the second one. Is the convention that you mention written down or by observation?
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jolan

30th November 2009, 16:51
Methinks it's just common practice. I'd be more happy to accept it if written:-
Kelly becomes (or BECAME) well-informed IF(or WHEN) followed by one who wrote nonsense
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bullfrog

30th November 2009, 17:01
I had a hunt around and found this in an article by Hugh Stephenson, the Guardian's Crossword Editor:
The most important convention is that a clue normally consists of two elements: a definition of the answer and a cryptic indication of how to get there. On top of that, the definition bit is normally either at the beginning or the end of the clue, not in the middle. (There are of course exceptions to these rules.....but more than nine out of 10 clues follow this convention.)

I have to say that in more than 40 years of doing the Guardian cryptic, I don't ever recall ever having seen the definition in the middle!
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big dave

30th November 2009, 17:03
This one from last Friday's Telegraph is very similar:

11a Retired with such energy? It could make you see red! (12)

The definition is "energy" and if you want the answer you can find it on the blog:

http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/27/dt-26097/">http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/27/dt-26097/
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bullfrog

30th November 2009, 17:25
Sod's Law says that I'll start seeing it everywhere I look from now on...

Thanks for the link BigDave -- very interesting site which I'll be revisiting (especially the Mine). And I'm very jealous of your kitchen...
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big dave

30th November 2009, 17:28
The above clue came from Don Manley who sets for the Guardian as Pasquale - so now you are pre-warned.
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