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18th January 2013, 12:08
Afternoon Bullfrog

I would be grateful if you could start Clueless next Tuesday. There has been a bit of controversy and this would really help the situation. Hope you don't mind me asking you. x
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18th January 2013, 12:12
Apologies for butting in....emrach please read my comments on the clueless thread. X
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18th January 2013, 12:22
Pastille I really do appreciate your support but it just doesn't feel right and I will continue with Peer review but not with Clueless - my own little protest!! On a lighter note I hope life with you is good and you have a fab weekend planned - for me still suffering from the economic hangover of Christmas xxx
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18th January 2013, 13:19
Oh, emrach, don't worry about it. It's hardly unusual to encounter protest in Clueless. I once won for SHAMBOLIC, with "Suggestion of prosthetic testicle makes Brit crazy", having used "Brit" because the word is NEVER used here in the US and appears in dictionaries as just that: Brit. Someone protested that it was not a valid clue because Brit was superfluous, and this generated many posts, and although I pointed out that qualifications like Scot's and Yankee are not only fair but often necessary for fairness, I offered to withdraw. A number of posters either agreed with me or were gracious enough to say that they did, and I ruthlessly went on to arbitrate. The wound has healed, and this loud American is still here to tell about the battle. I for one anxiously await your challenge.
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18th January 2013, 13:23
Hi emrach.

THEA has voiced his opinion, as he is wont to do, and it's an opinion that I can understand even if I don't necessarily share it. Clearly there are solvers and setters of widely differing abilities on this site and while it's fairly easy for the newbies to learn about solving clues, from explanations to the queries they post, it's less easy to learn about setting clues, because no-one wants to stick their head above the parapet and voice a criticism. I've seen so-called cryptic clues, that are effectively nothing more than single definitions with no di, but, like everyone else, I've bitten my tongue for fear of causing this kind of upset (although when BBM2 won with a letter missing from his anagram, I was the one who pointed it out!). What we don't have is an easy and constructive way of telling someone that their clue isn't very good (preferably without sounding pompous or superior.)

Having said that, I don't think that there's anything wrong with your clue, and I've just Googled back to Clueless 15 when ab set the word ROUNDABOUT and I won with 'Ogyrrem', which certainly doesn't fit the two-element rule mentioned by THEA. Ultimately, as has been said before, it's all in fun on what has developed into a very warm and inclusive site. If you'd been around a couple of years ago you would have seen some really vitriolic posts flying back and forth, but it's the way it is now because the core posters persevered - although at times I'm sure I wasn't the only one who felt like walking away from it - and a big part of building that atmosphere is the creation of Clueless, Peer Review and the Joint Effort, all of which came about, and thrived, because WE wanted them.

So - if you're determined that you won't set Clueless, then I'll releuctantly step in, but I would urge you (and redundantelf) to reconsider.
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18th January 2013, 13:44
Hear. Hear....

I posted a comment on the clueless thread explaining how I was "taken to task about the word tmesis.

My clue setting skills are not brilliant, but I enjoy hiss and a big raspberry to the grumblers.....x
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18th January 2013, 13:50
Emrach, and, I hope, Redundantelf. I rarely get involved in discussions or even persiflage on this site, but there is no controversy here. You both have the full support of everyone who has commented so far, including me.

One person ignored the bit about "The judge’s decision is final; reasons may or may not be given at the judge’s discretion" and commented negatively. He has a right to do so. Everyone else so far, including respected clue writers such as Bullfrog, Aristo, Ixion, Paul and BBM2 have supported you. Emrach, set the word for Clueless, pick the clue you like and we will all sincerely congratulate the winner you choose. That’s what makes this forum pleasant. You have heard of Bullfrog and Aristo's experiences. Had they left as a result of them the site would have been much the poorer. You are among friends, this is a friendly site and we are not curing cancer, we are just playing about with words, for fun.
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18th January 2013, 13:54
Hi Aristo and Bullfrog Thankyou both for your comments.

I am not in the least bit bothered about anyone commenting on my clue and I would in fact appreciate any feedback on how a clue could have been better. I know I have still a lot to learn and I am not that sensitive!!

My problem is that RE has now left the site over this and I would feel extremely uncomfortable starting Clueless next week due to my involvement. Hope that makes sense.

So Bullfrog I would be grateful if you will take over. Thanks xxx
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18th January 2013, 14:10

The post by theambler on the Clueless thread was about taking ME to task about MY choice of winner, not your entry - so you are entirely blameless.

I understand where he is coming from but I do believe there are better ways of expressing an opinion. As I said earlier, I had my own business for over 30 years which I built up from scratch - so I am not in the thin skinned category! (JJ and all that)

To that end, I am willing to reconsider my decision over this coming weekend but only if you agree to set next week's Clueless (and I'm not trying to blackmail you - only trying to make you see sense)
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18th January 2013, 14:11
AB Sorry our posts crossed and thanks for putting it into perspective -re your cancer comment made me smile, not often you get to say that!!! Bullfrog has agreed to start Clueless next week and I am comfortable with that. Hope you understand xxx

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