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pauline2279

10th May 2012, 13:42
I am stuck on this one today. 1 down Charlie swam in sea, serious actor (7,8) M?L???? ??G?A?E. Thank you.
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bernie

10th May 2012, 13:43
Michael Redgrave.
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bernie

10th May 2012, 13:52
Should have explained.
Anagram of Charlie, Med (sea) + grave (serious)
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rambler

10th May 2012, 13:56
Interesting clue, what aristo calls a 'ghost anagram' - he says they are not valid?
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trevor

10th May 2012, 14:03
i don't think that this is a ghost (aka indirect) anagram.
Charlie is anagramed inside the word Med (not anagramed) for sea.
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rambler

10th May 2012, 14:06
I stand corrected, trevor.
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aristophanes

10th May 2012, 14:08
Hello, rambler. I just happened to check in here and saw your post. Actually, this isn't one of those, I'd say, since MED isn't part of the anagram; Charlie is jumbled inside M-------EDGRAVE. There seems to be a lot of disagreement about what I often complain about, but I strongly feel that all letters of an anagram should be present in the clue itself. What's your take on it?
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aristophanes

10th May 2012, 14:09
Sorry, missed trevor's post. Still curious though.
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rambler

10th May 2012, 14:10

I'm convinced by your argument and agree.
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trevor

10th May 2012, 14:16
from wiki;
"in some older puzzles, the words to be anagrammed may be clued and then anagrammed. So in this clue:

Chew honeydew fruit (5)

Chew is the anagram indicator; honeydew clues melon, which is to be anagrammed; and fruit is the definition for the answer, LEMON. This kind of clue is called an indirect anagram, which in the vast majority of cryptic crosswords are not used, ever since they were criticised by 'Ximenes' in his 1966 book 'On the Art of the Crossword'. Minor exception: Simple abbreviations may be used to spice up the process; e.g., "Husband, a most eccentric fellow" (6) for THOMAS, where the anagram is made from A, MOST, and H = husband."

i don't like them either Aristo.
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