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I rarely finish the cryptic but am gradually getting there. Two seem a bit obscure,
4d REJECT VOTE AGAINST IMPUDENT TYPES OF A PRIMITIVE CULTURE.(8) S - R - P - A -.
16D. BIRDS IN CAPITAL CROSSING A RIVER (9)
C - R - C - L - S.
Any thoughts.?

Impudent types are PERTS with vote NAY all reversed gives STREPYAN

When is AS, association is UNION with clubs (C) invested gives ASUNCION

Yiu gave the wrong clue number for 14 Down.

It is CARACARAS

CARACAS is the capital across A R(iver)

Caracaras

Thanks Brackendale a few to go for a rare finish.

Thanks again Brackendale ( and Mamya) I apologise for putting wrong clue No. but didn't have Asuncion. At present I do the Times, Saga and Radio Times, very rarely the Guardian ( love Arucaria) and find Saga the hardest. Assume setters feel its readers have more time to cogitate.!

I agree with you about the Saga crossword being quite hard and certainly harder than the others you listed. You could be right about Saga Magazine readers having more time but I suspect it's the compiler trying to be nastier than his peers.

Saga is sometimes so obscure that you have to persevere for a long time.I am not finished yet.

"two seem a bit obscure" is a masterly piece of understatement. This puzzle ia always a nightmare!

being new to this site or any other Xword contact it is a relief to hear your comments - I thought it was me being stupid. Thanks again for your help - amazingly I am 2 short of completing.